Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 The 85 GL 4WD Turbo Wagon (auto tranny) is having a wierd electrical problem. It acts like the battery is not charged. Well I should say somethings it acts that way. The battery has been fully charged and the terminals cleaned, the starter has been replaced, but the problem is still there. When you first try to start it, you get the clicking sound like a weak battery and the starter trying to engage. When you release the key and it goes to the on position, the dash warning lights are dim, but slowly get brighter. If I try to start the car again, the starter engages and turns over slowly, too slowing to start the engine, plus I don't think there is enough electricity for the fuel injection to work properly. The same thing that happened before, happens again when to ignition switch is retured to the 'on' position, the warning lights are dim, but slowly get brighter. I checked the FSM, and in the engine trouble shooting area, it states to check the trouble shooting area for the starting system, but as much as I look, having gone through all four books of the FSM set, I can not find a starting system section, let alone a trouble shooting section for that system. I check the ECU (ECM in the FSM) see a code 12, but check the FSM for the codes, it only shows codes for the ECC (Electronic Controled Carburator), and 12 is not one of those code. I thought someone had put these codes in the "USRM - Repair & Mod" section of this web site, but could find them there. So, now I'm heading to check the FSM library that I purchased to see it there is a separate trouble shooting guide, but I don't remember one. If anyone has any idea what a code 12 mean in an EA82T, 1985 model year, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canajun2eh Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Sounds like a bad battery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 OK, I found the code 12, in the Fuel Injection section, it states, "Detectable part = Starter SW1, Description = Whether starter switch remains OFF or not when engine speed is low (The switch must not remain OFF)" I wish that made sense to me, but it doesn't, I read the code with the ignition switch in the on position and when the engine does turn over, it does it slowly, so that statement for the code doesn't make sense to me. Two pages later is list the trouble codes and claas a code 12, " Starter switch in OFF mode", whatever that means. So I got to the trouble shooting guide, and it talk about checking voltage at a connector. But I think this error code is a result of the weird elctricaly problem, not the cause of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 check your grounds. first thing i woud do is attach one end of jumper cable to the NEGATIVE battery terminal and then clamp the other end to a very good ground. on the XT6 there is a ground wire that bolts close to the oil filler cap. i'd try that. you see what i'm saying right? don't actually try to jump the car, just attach one clamp of the jumper cable to the negative terminal and the other end of the clamp to a ground on the motor. you won't use both sides of the jumper cable. of if you have some good electrical wire lying around, just attach it to the negative terminal and a ground. best to have good thick, heavy gauge wire. i've seen this cause the exact problem you're encountering. with a bad ground wire, jumping with a good battery won't start the car. and of course have the battery professionally tested, sounds like one cell could be bad. autozone/advanced and others test batteries for free. check your alternator connections. car should start, but if they are bad that may cause some problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 just read that last post - i'd check into the ignition itself, the thing your key goes into. could you have a bad contact in there? i've never really had a problem with those so i'm not sure how to trouble shoot. i think i'd start by giving the starter 12 volts directly. make sure it does indeed turn over. then check battery and connections/ground. that's the order i would go in i think. it would be nice to get it started to narrow it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 i think the battery is the best place to start too. it may just be low on water (distilled only of course for those who don't know).. good luck corky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Check all gounds and other conections to and from batt and starter and ignition-starter switches. Check on those fusable links as well. Also...run a load tester on the batt first, and see what its doing. Could be putting out good volts, but nothing behind it...aka...not holding the charge under a load.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 1. Grounds, add another one and clean the old ones. 2. Put a different battery in, see if the same problem occurs. 3. Look at Ign switch connector under the dash cover (its pink). Sometimes with age this gets overheated and looses good contact and/or melts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Sounds like a bad battery to me.Please read my post, the battery is fully charged and tested, it is less the 6 months old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Some additional info that I forgot, it does start occasionally. Also the battery is less then 6 months old, so I'm pretty sure it is not the battery. I plan to check the grounding as my next step. There is really nothing much in the starter circuit, the positive goes from the battery directly to the starter, the ign swith and the inhibitor switch (auto tranny) are just in the pathway to groung the circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Let me take a peek at it tomorrow when I'm there. Two heads are better than one. I'm with the battery (I know it's only 6 months old) and the grounds crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 OK, I found the code 12, in the Fuel Injection section, it states, "Detectable part = Starter SW1, Description = Whether starter switch remains OFF or not when engine speed is low (The switch must not remain OFF)" I wish that made sense to me, but it doesn't, I read the code with the ignition switch in the on position and when the engine does turn over, it does it slowly, so that statement for the code doesn't make sense to me. Two pages later is list the trouble codes and claas a code 12, " Starter switch in OFF mode", whatever that means. So I got to the trouble shooting guide, and it talk about checking voltage at a connector. But I think this error code is a result of the weird elctricaly problem, not the cause of it. you got the same efi i have, and that wont keep you from starting, i have that wire unhooked. battery! dont trust parts even when they are brand new. or your starter. i have pulled a alt. out of a box, installed it, and it was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbob99 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Code 12= "Ignition Pulse system (NG) Engine off" I'm sure that little piece will help you loads Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Well, I still haven't figured it out, but now it starts just fine. I removed the bolt from the starter that holds the ground, looked at the nut, washer, bolt and the contact points on the starter and tranny, all were clean and showed no sign of any build up, I bolted it back together, and gave it a try. Guess what, that same damn thing, clicking, then slow spinning of the engine that gets progressively faster, but never fast enough. So now I'm getting really pissed, I start talking to the wife about getting another Subaru, to which she agrees (that's the first miracle), so I say I'll give it one more try. Well by now you've probably guess it, that damn thing starts right up, so I shut it down, try it again, bang, it starts no problem. I did that at least 10 time in the next half hour, each time it started right away. Go figure, I'm still scratching my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Code 12= "Ignition Pulse system (NG)Engine off" I'm sure that little piece will help you loads Dan For which model year did you get that explaination of the code from, it makes a difference. It sounds like a code for an EJ series engine. My second post here states what it is for the car in question. Thanks for the effort though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Probally was just a smidge of corrosion on the connection(s) that you played around with. It don't take much sometimes, 'specially on a high amp draw component such as a starter. Just loosening/retightening the bolt/nut will sometimes cure the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 i'd clean up all connections you came close to touching. it could be the bolt you removed, or maybe you bumped something else in there that caused it to start. for instance - my XT6 didn't start. new alternator, battery and wires and terminals. starter was the only thing not new, i assumed that was the problem. so i got out and hit the starter with some random tool, cranked right up. time to rebuild my starter. did that 2 or 3 more times through the week....then it wouldn't start at all and i hadn't rebuilt the starter yet but had an extra in the trunk. i decided to check my grounds and connected my negative terminal of battery to ground before swapping starter parts....car started right up. i ran a heavy gauge wire from negative terminal to ground when i got home and it's been fine since then and i haven't touched the starter yet. i really need to rebuild that freaking thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subi81 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Wow the the teacher has become the student, just kidding. I have the same code comming from my 86 turbo wagon, and I was bafaled by it, but my car starts without a hitch? from the ecucodes website http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/turbaroo/ecucodes.html 1984 through 1986 Fuel Injected Models: 12 Starter Switch Off 1987 Fuel Injected Models: 12 Starter Switch or Circuit I have taken my starter swich completly apart and cleaned it and checked it to the best of my knowledge, I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I even had the code before I installed my turbo timer. Since I have a manual trans I thought maybe Subaru just uses the same sensor error checking for Auto and manual, but on a manual, that sensor reading doesn't cause a no start conditing but still posts the code? correct me if I am wrong. Maybe your inhibitor switch is messed up, but if that was messed up you would just get an absolute no start not a kinda no start?? On my 81 wagon, I would get a condition similar to yours, turned out to be a messed up positive cable. It got corroded inside the insilation and puffed up to 1.5 inches in diameter, the corrosion turned the copper wire to a packed flower like consistancy and only one wire was carrying all the current, finally it had enough and wouldn't start at all. Sorry if provides absolutly no help at all. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 Thanks for all the help guys, and yes, even the teacher need to be taught sometimes. A side note about the starter, I checked will a dealer about a new one, it's around $100, but he didn't have one in stock. This starters fit every automatic Subaru EA82 and EJ22, so there are a lot of cars out there with these starter, the guy at the dealer checked his sale history on this starter, and he has NEVER sold one. These starters are rugged, the standards starters are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Maybe I missed this earlier but have you compaired voltage readings at the battery vs. at the starter? I mean, when you're cranking the engine, is there a significant difference in the reading at the battery compaired to a reading taking at the starter. If there is, then there is probably a problem with the battery cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Did ya check out page 42 in the 85 FSM section 2-7? Theres a couple of diagrams there that you might be able to interpret. The thing I am seeing is that theres a control unit for this. I dont know what the control unit is though, if its the TCU or if theres an independent relay/control box just for starting like a neutral safety switch. Are the 85 ea82T cars using 4spd trannies or they still the 3AT with no TCU? These diagrams confuse me most of the time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 85 would still be a 3 speed auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 the dash lights slowly coming back to full brilliance tells me ... one of the battery cables has a problem between the cable connector and the cable IF you catch it in this situation again hold the key in the start position for approx. 5 seconds then feel each terminal end of both battery cables the one that is warm to the touch is the culprit. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.