This is shameful

[DerFahrer]

I see THREE threads on just this page that are overheating/blown headgaskets related. Two of them are Phase I's, one is a Phase II...

 

This saddens me. I do a lot of Subaru praising around my friends, those who don't really like them. But sometimes I wonder if maybe I'm giving too much praise...

 

[THAWA]

nope, the ej25 just blows headgaskets like the old ea71's I've read It's not like subaru's haven't always had a problem with heads or hg's. I do wonder how long it will be until an ej255 or ej257 block blows the gaskets.

 

also get on aim already!

[northguy]

No more shameful than the thousands of recalls by Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy... over the years.

[richierich]

No worse than the 85-86 EA82T, with heads cracking at 60k miles!!!

 

People are complaining about headgasket failure at 100K-150k miles.

[SevenSisters]

 

No more shameful than the thousands of recalls by Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy... over the years.

__________________

No less shameful either. This is the problem.

[avk]

No more shameful than the thousands of recalls by Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy... over the years.

At least they issued recalls, although not w/o a fight.

[Dr.Outback]

Every car company has it's issues. I've talked to a bunch mechanics about this issue including a mechanic from SOA, and yes the Phase 1's did seem to have a problem with blowing headgaskets, esspecially in winter. But even then it was only affecting a small percentage. But the Phase 2's are pretty solid. I think from what I see coming into the shop, that oil leaks from the crank and cam seals are far more common. But they aren't a big deal if you wait till you do the timing belt. You only here about the 1% that have problems with their Subaru's, not the 99% that don't. Very, very few Subaru's ever get towed into LCM's shop because of a no start condition.

[edrach]

I have owned at least 7 Subarus over the years (with three kids in the family, I bought what I could fix and was familiar with). Most of my cars were bought with in excess of 100K miles on them. I've kept them for well over 100K miles more and then some. The only head gasket that really did me in was my Brat with about 350K on it; and I had about 6 months of warning before the gaskets finally went. My '86 wagon had 250K on it and the head gaskets were fine when I sold that (I won't mention the little o-rings in the head gasket that were toast and caused the car to spew oil to the tune of a quart every 400 miles). My newest Subaru is a '91 Legacy wagon which I bought with 98K on it; I now am pushing 134K and plan on keeping it for another 300K or more. I don't know if the EJ series is less reliable since I have little experience with it, but I think that Subaru makes a more bullet-proof engine than most manufacturers. I think routine maintenance and being aware of how the car runs goes a long way to preventing some of the failures that can happen.

 

Also, consider we have over 6000 people on the USMB. The ones without problems don't post much. Sounds like a pretty small percentage of head gasket failures to me.

[rweddy]

I have owned at least 7 Subarus over the years (with three kids in the family, I bought what I could fix and was familiar with). Most of my cars were bought with in excess of 100K miles on them. I've kept them for well over 100K miles more and then some. The only head gasket that really did me in was my Brat with about 350K on it; and I had about 6 months of warning before the gaskets finally went. My '86 wagon had 250K on it and the head gaskets were fine when I sold that (I won't mention the little o-rings in the head gasket that were toast and caused the car to spew oil to the tune of a quart every 400 miles). My newest Subaru is a '91 Legacy wagon which I bought with 98K on it; I now am pushing 134K and plan on keeping it for another 300K or more. I don't know if the EJ series is less reliable since I have little experience with it, but I think that Subaru makes a more bullet-proof engine than most manufacturers. I think routine maintenance and being aware of how the car runs goes a long way to preventing some of the failures that can happen.

 

Also, consider we have over 6000 people on the USMB. The ones without problems don't post much. Sounds like a pretty small percentage of head gasket failures to me.

Bravo!!

I could not have said it better, or agree more. :clap:

[Setright]

Aye! Well put, hits the nail right on the head.

 

Ultimately, any engine that goes for more than 120k miles and/or ten years, can not be said to be "weak" if it blows an HG.

Of course, one that goes over 250k, could justifiably be called "strong" ;-)

[The Dude]

Every car company has it's issues. I've talked to a bunch mechanics about this issue including a mechanic from SOA, and yes the Phase 1's did seem to have a problem with blowing headgaskets, esspecially in winter. But even then it was only affecting a small percentage. But the Phase 2's are pretty solid. I think from what I see coming into the shop, that oil leaks from the crank and cam seals are far more common. But they aren't a big deal if you wait till you do the timing belt. You only here about the 1% that have problems with their Subaru's, not the 99% that don't. Very, very few Subaru's ever get towed into LCM's shop because of a no start condition.

 

With all due respect, if there were so few HG failures, you would think that Subaru would be willing to make some accomadation for the very small number of affected customers.

I don't believe that is case. I have been reading this Subaru board, and others, for over five years. There has been a relentless litany of Phase I HG failures during that time. Several posters claim to be on their FOURTH HG replacements. Worst of all, in my view, is the fact that Subaru has decided to ignore this issue. There are Subaru customers, then there are Subaru fans. The fans are going to defend Subaru no matter what. Hey, that's what fans do. Well, fine, but filling up thousands of cars with stop leak in order to cover up an external head gasket failure issue is not the hallmark of a responsible company.

And comparing the Subaru HG problem to problems with other cars, doesn't get it for me either. Hey, I'm a thief, but at least I'm not a murderer.

 

AND I'm not even going to mention the clutch shuddering/ smoking situation that went UNRESOLVED for years. Yeah, yeah, I know, at least it isn't an Edsel. Now that was a bad car.

[northguy]

God, we all sound like a bunch of politicians well-versed in spin control.

[The Dude]

God, we all sound like a bunch of politicians well-versed in spin control.

Is that a compliment or a criticism? Just checking.

[Dr.Outback]

With all due respect, if there were so few HG failures, you would think that Subaru would be willing to make some accomadation for the very small number of affected customers.

I don't believe that is case. I have been reading this Subaru board, and others, for over five years. There has been a relentless litany of Phase I HG failures during that time. Several posters claim to be on their FOURTH HG replacements. Worst of all, in my view, is the fact that Subaru has decided to ignore this issue. There are Subaru customers, then there are Subaru fans. The fans are going to defend Subaru no matter what. Hey, that's what fans do. Well, fine, but filling up thousands of cars with stop leak in order to cover up an external head gasket failure issue is not the hallmark of a responsible company.

And comparing the Subaru HG problem to problems with other cars, doesn't get it for me either. Hey, I'm a thief, but at least I'm not a murderer.

 

AND I'm not even going to mention the clutch shuddering/ smoking situation that went UNRESOLVED for years. Yeah, yeah, I know, at least it isn't an Edsel. Now that was a bad car.

Well, if a person is on their fourth set of headgaskets, that can only mean one thing. A poor mechanic. Either the gaskets were installed wrong, the head bolts torqued to the wrong ft/lb or in the wrong order. Or the head became warped and wasn't machined or machined properly. Plus other installation issues stemming from poor work. I have asked the guys that work with me in the parts department about the headgasket issues, and compared to the '90-'94 2.2L, the Phase 1 2.5's did have a higher amount of failure. But nothing severe. We seem to have more early '00-'02 Legacy's in for delayed engagement of the auto tranny's then headgaskets. (Due to an O-ring not holding pressure, it's been corrected) I have never said Subaru was the most reliable Japanese company. According to Consumer Reports they are third behind Toyota and Honda. But not by much. I also go through and throw out all the warrenty parts as a part of my job. In a 3mo time we might have about 3 headgasket kits under warrenty. A couple of pistons to fix a "cold knock problem". Most of the stuff are wiper blades, visors, trim pieces, window gussets, spark plugs, cup holders, catylitic convertors, a head from a head gasket job, cargo covers, light bulbs, clocks, sensors, wheel bearings. But for a dealership that sells 60 cars a month and services most of them, its not that many big expensive problems.

[The Dude]

Well, if a person is on their fourth set of headgaskets, that can only mean one thing. A poor mechanic. Either the gaskets were installed wrong, the head bolts torqued to the wrong ft/lb or in the wrong order. Or the head became warped and wasn't machined or machined properly. Plus other installation issues stemming from poor work. I have asked the guys that work with me in the parts department about the headgasket issues, and compared to the '90-'94 2.2L, the Phase 1 2.5's did have a higher amount of failure. But nothing severe. We seem to have more early '00-'02 Legacy's in for delayed engagement of the auto tranny's then headgaskets. (Due to an O-ring not holding pressure, it's been corrected) I have never said Subaru was the most reliable Japanese company. According to Consumer Reports they are third behind Toyota and Honda. But not by much. I also go through and throw out all the warrenty parts as a part of my job. In a 3mo time we might have about 3 headgasket kits under warrenty. A couple of pistons to fix a "cold knock problem". Most of the stuff are wiper blades, visors, trim pieces, window gussets, spark plugs, cup holders, catylitic convertors, a head from a head gasket job, cargo covers, light bulbs, clocks, sensors, wheel bearings. But for a dealership that sells 60 cars a month and services most of them, its not that many big expensive problems.

 

So, ah, you're in the Parts Department at a Subaru dealership. Cool. Maybe you can tell me how many REVISIONS there have been on the 2.5 L Phase I head gasket. I'm thinking there have been six, but you know, it could be seven. Gee, why have there been so many head gasket revisions to solve a problem that hardly ever, ever happens to anyone? You'd think the genius engineers at Subaru would've whipped that puppy in only one or two revisions. I know. Everytime there's a slow day at Fuju Heavy Industries HQ Toshe, the head engineer, decides to kill some time by redesigning the Phase I head gasket one more time. Not that it really needs it, but you know, it's Japan, and company men are kind of expected to look busy. So, its redesign the Phase I HG one more time, and then off for a night of drinking sake and singing company songs with the other guys in the office. It's a far East thing. I understand. I really do.