BigDarrin Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hi all, I'm new to this forum and I am not a mechanic, nor do I play one on TV. I'm having some issues with my Loyale. I will enumerate to make it clearer. 1. Coolant. It is going somewhere, but there are no puddles. I'm afraid this might be a head gasket or worse. The odd thing is that other than a little bit of rough idle, the car runs great. It will hesitate if I try to accelerate too hard before it is warmed up significantly, but has normal power otherwise. Could that be a result of trying to spit water/coolant out of a cylinder or two? There is a bit of foam on the dipstick when checking oil. Also, my mileage has gone from approx. 28 to about 17 mpg. OUCH! What else could this possibly be? 2. The heater control is stuck on A/C. Not a problem in the summer when I was in Central California. But, now I'm in Idaho and it is getting cold. My windows are constantly fogging up to the point that I can't see. The temperature selection still works, so I can get warm air. But the recirc of the A/C doesn't help keep the windows clear. What could be causing the selection of Defrost(heat, or dual-level) to still be on A/C? Not to mention that my fan control only works on 3 and 4. 3. The 4-wheel drive will not engage. Again, this wasn't a problem in Central California, but now winter is coming, and I like the peace of mind that comes from having 4wd. What is the first thing I should check for this problem? I press the button and the light never comes on. Thanks for any assistance and I look forward to participating in these forums. Darrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hi all, I'm new to this forum and I am not a mechanic, nor do I play one on TV. I'm having some issues with my Loyale. I will enumerate to make it clearer. 1. Coolant. It is going somewhere, but there are no puddles. I'm afraid this might be a head gasket or worse. The odd thing is that other than a little bit of rough idle, the car runs great. It will hesitate if I try to accelerate too hard before it is warmed up significantly, but has normal power otherwise. Could that be a result of trying to spit water/coolant out of a cylinder or two? There is a bit of foam on the dipstick when checking oil. Also, my mileage has gone from approx. 28 to about 17 mpg. OUCH! What else could this possibly be? 2. The heater control is stuck on A/C. Not a problem in the summer when I was in Central California. But, now I'm in Idaho and it is getting cold. My windows are constantly fogging up to the point that I can't see. The temperature selection still works, so I can get warm air. But the recirc of the A/C doesn't help keep the windows clear. What could be causing the selection of Defrost(heat, or dual-level) to still be on A/C? Not to mention that my fan control only works on 3 and 4. 3. The 4-wheel drive will not engage. Again, this wasn't a problem in Central California, but now winter is coming, and I like the peace of mind that comes from having 4wd. What is the first thing I should check for this problem? I press the button and the light never comes on. Thanks for any assistance and I look forward to participating in these forums. Darrin Welcome! This is a great place for information, as I have found out over the last couple of months. Just be ready for SOMEONE to tell you to try SEARCH first. OK... first, it would help to know something about your car. The more knowledgeable here probably know based on your year, but I don't. I think that the only induction option for your year was SPFI (single-point FI), but don't want to assume. Is your transmission manual or automatic, how many speeds, and how do you engage 4WD mode? (I assume it is a pushbutton 4WD.) Does the 4WD indicator on the dash come on? First guess is that you have a vacuum leak. The ventilation controls are run off of vacuum, as is the actuator for the 4WD on bushbuttons. A substantial vac leak could also explain the gas mileage problem. Did all of this happen at once? Like a common problem caused all of this? If so, I would think an intake gasket leak: Would cause vac leak, mess up the mixture, and since coolant passes through the gasket to warm the intake, could be the source of your leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDarrin Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 Thanks for the reply and the welcome. Sorry I left out the details about the car. I was so happy I found these forums, I got a little anxious to post. You are correct, it is a SPFI. It is a manual 5 spd with pushbutton 4wd on the top of the shifter. No, the dash indicator does not light, nor do I hear the 4wd engage (there used to be a very subtle click). A vacuum leak seems to make sense with what you say. I would have to say that most of these things happened at different times, though. I threw an A/C belt and put a new on on myself. For a while, I hadn't tightened it enough, so everytime I turned the A/C on, it would squeal. Once I got it tight enough that it worked, that was when the ventilation controls quit working (or shortly after that), but I was getting good mileage and wasn't noticing the coolant leak. I also failed to mention that with the rough idle, if it idles for an excessive time (ie sitting in a drive through), the engine light will come on. It goes off again once I am at cruising speed, or if I turn the engine off and then back on. Also, (sorry, I keep remembering things) on occasion it will overheat (due to too little coolant) and once that happens it will run erratically and then die and won't start until it has cooled for 1/2 hour to 45 minutes. I don't know if that is a vapor lock, but that's what it seems like. At any rate, what is the easiest, least complicated way to test for vacuum leaks and where do I start? Thanks again for the reply. I look forward to more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 ... At any rate, what is the easiest, least complicated way to test for vacuum leaks and where do I start?... I would probably start by taking a quick look over your vacuum lines for obvious disconnects and breaks. Also, check out if the lines are getting hard/brittle or soft. PCV valve/lines might be a potential source, as would brake-booster line. You might also try spraying carb cleaner *carefully*, while the engine is running, around the throttle-body base and where the intake manifold attaches to the heads. If the engine speed changes, then you probably have a leak nearby. The vaccum leak could also be under the dash where the line comes in to service the vent controls (and something else, but what I forget). Re: 4WD... on my PB 5speed, if I "play" with the button (its sitting right on top, and it is hard for me to not run my thumb over it!) I hear a dull click through my stereo as the electrical connections start to "make". Do you hear anything like this? Point is, it might also be electrical and coincidental to the vent problems. And, DUH! do the simple inexpensive stuff first. Mark-I I-Ball exam of lines, carb cleaner, check fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDarrin Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Well, it's been a while, but I would like to update this topic. And ask for some further information. After I looked around the engine compartment a little, I noticed a hose going off of that white canister on the firewall that was just hanging there. Bingo! I connected it to the other hose that was just hanging there and now I have defrost and all other vent controls and my 4wd works!! Thanks for all of the help. Now, for my other questions. I have not tried the carb cleaner spraying, but would an intake manifold gasket cause the following problem? If I have the ventilation set to Defrost, but accelerate hard, it changes to the A/C vents and is hotter than it seems it should be. As soon as the load on the engine is more reasonable, it switches back to the defrost vents. I also hear gurgling when I turn the engine off that can be traced to the coolant reservoir.(As an aside: in regards to the topic of car names, due to the gurgling, my fiance has take to calling my Subaru the "Gurglemonster") Could all of this tie to the intake manifold gaskets? Coolant still seems to be going somewhere, but the dipstick doesn't show any foam now. Thanks in advance for any and all input. Darrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 If I have the ventilation set to Defrost, but accelerate hard, it changes to the A/C vents and is hotter than it seems it should be. As soon as the load on the engine is more reasonable, it switches back to the defrost vents. I also hear gurgling when I turn the engine off that can be traced to the coolant reservoir.Could all of this tie to the intake manifold gaskets? Sounds like you still have some vaccuum problems, though not likely the intake gasket. It would leaking constantly - not intermittant as you describe. I suspect some of your lines have gotten crossed up somewhere. If your hood is original, there will be a vaccuum diagram on the backside. Take some time to make sure everything is routed correctly, Coolant still seems to be going somewhere, but the dipstick doesn't show any foam now. Probably a leaky gasket. It will get worse over time, and you may ruin your motor if you continue to run it low on coolant. I would start with a compression check, and post your readings on this Board for further advice. Thanks in advance for any and all input. Darrin good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanMachine Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I have a 1992 loyale that also suffered from "mysterious" coolant lose. The original owner sold it to me dirt cheap because someone told him it was the common subaru head gasket failure problem. It compression tested great, ran strong and seemed fine except needing coolant top-offs on a reguilar basis. Turns out the problem was a very small leak in one of the little coolant bypass hoses in the back of the engine. It was leaking so slowly that it evaporated right there on top of the engine instead of leaking onto the ground. A coupel dollars worth of hose and some new clamps fixed the problem. That was 22,000 miles ago and no further coolant has been lost. I hope you are as lucky as I was. It's worth checking, at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 the disappearing coolant and the vents switching to ac under load i would suspect the intake gaskets i swapped a motro for a dude, he thought his heads were messed up. turned out to be a bad intake gasket, there is a coolant passage thru the intake and intake port Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 the disappearing coolant and the vents switching to ac under load i would suspect the intake gaskets i swapped a motro for a dude, he thought his heads were messed up. turned out to be a bad intake gasket, there is a coolant passage thru the intake and intake port The intake gasket would make sense to me - except for the vent settings jumping around under load. Does the intake gasket affect all the vaccuum systems simultaneously? I thought the vent system is self contained, but maybe I'm wrong. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 At WOT, the engine produces NO vacuum. I would suspect another vacuum leak somewhere, as it seems the vacuum canister is being "drained" of vacuum before the throttle is closed again. My RX does this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I did a thorough consideration about head gasket sealant as an alternative to major vehicle repair as an option, considering my '88 rust bucket aint worth major repair...I tried the Barsleaks products, the silver powder and the black pellets, also the stuff that is a metal ceramic mix. It might work with cracked heads, but not with gaskets with all that pressure. The only product that really works long term is called "Blue Devil" available at some NAPA and other parts stores. It costs $70 but you must carefully follow directions. The purchase price is fully refundable by later buying parts etc. at the same store you bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 WOT = ? My GL does the same thing with the heater controls; Defrost under load blows through the lower vents. I'm sure I don't have a blown headgasket, so could this still be a bad intake manifold gasket? I'll check the vacuum lines tomorrow once my wife gets back from work. thanks for the ideas... I was going to post a new thread until I found this one. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 i would figure there should be some kind of check valve for the vac system jon as the throttle plate opens and air rushes into the cylinders, there is an equalizing of pressure to the outside, so therefore vacuum will decrease. as far as intake gaskets go, if there was a profound vac leak the car would idle fast and run lean. but there is a coolant passage as well as the air passage, it is possible for the coolant side to be bad and ywt the port side to still seal i would consider changing the gaskets if you could eliminate othere sources that may be the problem. gaskets are cheap, and there are only 6 bolts total to the intake, its designed to come off all in one piece, including the hoses. there is a small hose under the intake to the block for coolant, it by the thermostat, check that hose for leakage as well as the ones behind the throttle body. 1/4" hose will fit as replacements make sure if taking the intake bolts out TURN THE BOLT SLOWLY with even pressure, dont jerk on the tool, so the torque wont twist the bolt faster than it will loosen, you dont want to twist them off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I'll bump this thread up with an update: Anyways, while trying to get the vacuum hoses off to clean them to try and solve my defrost problem, I broke something off the vacuum canister. Replaced it with one from the junkyard, and now my defrost works like it should It does not blow back at me during acceleration or under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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