Tick of Death Questions

[rwaterhouse]

Hi All;

 

So I just bought a 86 GL Wagon with about 200km on it. When I was inspecting it I noticed that the lifters were very noisy on one side, but the vehicle was otherwise in great condition. Upon further inspection I noticed that one of the rocker cover bolts was completely missing and it was blowing oil out the hole. Aha, I thought, this would lead to low oil pressure and hence noisy lifters. So I bought the car drove it home, replaced the bolt (free from friendly local dealer!) and congratulated myself on the now much quieter lifters. That's when everything went horribly wrong. I then added a can of Wynn's something or other (said it quietens noisy lifters) and went to bed.

 

This morning I drove 300 km to where I work during the week and holy crap, the noisy lifters are back. Hmmm I thought, maybe the Wynn's stuff is causing a problem, let's dilute it by added some fresh oil. Still no better, OK lets run by Mr. Lube and just get fresh oil. That is when I discovered that there was almost DOUBLE the correct amount of oil in the motor. So the previous owner probably added extra to compensate for losing oil through the missing bolt hole and then I added the Wynn's AND more oil and here we are. Talk about your self-inflicted injury! So after I finished kicking myself in the ars* repeatedly I started reading about "Tick of Death". I'm assuming at this point that I have damaged a seal or two somewhere, but I would like to know where I should start.

 

It seems like the o-ring under the cam towers would be a good place to start, but I can't tell from the write-ups if I have to remove the timing belts to get at this. Anyone have any experience at this? Any other ideas would be welcomed with open arms.

 

btw, oil pressure is good, it is on the 3 (kilo pascals or whatever, 1/2 way anyway) at idle and 5 (5/6 of full range) at speed. At this point the lifter noise is pretty bad, kinda reminds me of the old air-cooled VW's. Am I damaging it by driving like this?

 

Cheers

Roger

[archemitis]

i deffinately wouldnt call that a tick of death. cars will go for 50k miles like that and not notice anything than the noise.

you'll hear all kinds of tricks, just dont use kerosine or oven cleaner like i have seen mentioned!

 

i had an ea82 that did it and after a few scheduled oil changes, it went away.

also i have an ea81 that i have even changed the oil pump gaskets, and rebuilt the pump, and it didnt help.

no big deal, just noise =] in my opinion

[Snowman]

There are a wide variety of things that can cause lifter tick. Since it's only one side, it's not likely anything relating to the oil pump seals, which is good. I would try running a can of Marvel Mystery Oil at the next oil change, as it seems to be the lifter detergent of choice. If that doesn't fix it, I would take the cam tower off on that side to inspect the O-ring as you mentioned and take a look at the lifters themselves. Also look at the oil relief valve that somewhat governs pressure to the lifters, as this can be problematic as well and may simply be clogged and bypassing. Yes, you do have to remove the T-belt to do this. Yeah, it's a bit of work, but hey, you can fix anything else that's wrong at the same time. If the lifters themselves are bad, a few people on the board know about a place that sells rebuilt lifters for a few bucks apiece. You can probably find that with a search.

 

Good luck!

[canajun2eh]

Check out the information here:

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~camncath/ea82_hydraulic_lifter_fix.htm

 

The guy's name is Cameron Caunce, and he lives in Brisbane, Australia.

 

I hope this helps.

[WJM]

Ticking HVLAs? (Hydrualic Valve Lash Adjusters)

 

The way to solve those is to first replace the oil pump seals. The "mickey mouse" gasket, the oring and...i think there was one more but I cant be 100% sure. Also to run some high oil detergent additives and engine flush before changing the oil...and change it reguarly.

 

Castrol 10w30 Dino oil works best in these engines. Mobil 1 10w30 synthetic works even better than that.

 

Another way to solve it is to take the cam cases off so you can get to the followers and HVLAs. Take them out and rebuild them. But...thats a good bit of work...and if you are going to do that, might as well pull the whole engine and buy a full engine gasket kit from SUBARU, and tear the engine down and clean it religiously, and replace every single gasket on the engine. That would add about 200k+ miles of silent rock steady service to the engine.

 

ok..thats my 3 cents...

 

Im lazy...so I copy and paste!

[WAWalker]

Replace the oil pump. Has been proven by SOA and many independant Subaru techs that the oil pumps wear out on these engines. There is a reason that Subaru dealerships still stock these oil pumps.

 

Yes, you can have great oil pressure, and the noise can come and go, and only be on one bank...........The problem is usually still the oil pump airating the oil.

[rwaterhouse]

Replaced the oil pump seals, kind of an ugly job, and I had to redo the timing belt install, but all is quiet now. Also reconnected the vacuum advance to the distributor, and set the timing, so it also runs better!

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

Roger

 

86 GL Wagon 4x4 Dual Range

[idosubaru]

on a recently acquired subaru i'd plan on frequent oil changes - keep checking it to see if it gets dirty prematurely. if the previous owner didn't change the oil much it could get dirty very quickly. if your lifters aren't dirty or stuck now, frequent changes after you start driving it will reverse whatever contamination they received by the previous owner.

 

i have never replaced an oil pump on 5 XT6's in the past 10 years after many hundreds of thousands of miles of driving. i've had three motors with 200,000 + miles and no ticking. where i live subaru stocks oil pumps for the same reason they stock XT6 power steering pumps. they can charge 200 for an oil pump and 600 for a power steering pump.....but to fix either one of those pumps the parts are only a few dollars. dealers never rebuild parts for you. they won't rebuild your alternator, starter, power window motor, power steering pump, brake calipers....yet all of those parts (except the alternator) can be rebuilt for less than 10 bucks. and often an XT6 alternator just has a bad solder joint in it that can be cleaned up resoldered. maybe they will rebuild them if you ask, but most people just take the dealers word for it and replace the part with new.

[Myxalplyx]

i have never replaced an oil pump on 5 XT6's in the past 10 years after many hundreds of thousands of miles of driving. i've had three motors with 200,000 + miles and no ticking. where i live subaru stocks oil pumps for the same reason they stock XT6 power steering pumps. they can charge 200 for an oil pump and 600 for a power steering pump.....but to fix either one of those pumps the parts are only a few dollars. dealers never rebuild parts for you. they won't rebuild your alternator, starter, power window motor, power steering pump, brake calipers....yet all of those parts (except the alternator) can be rebuilt for less than 10 bucks. and often an XT6 alternator just has a bad solder joint in it that can be cleaned up resoldered. maybe they will rebuild them if you ask, but most people just take the dealers word for it and replace the part with new.

Wise words from a wise man. Heed them or pay. Pun intended!

[86subaru]

i had the same problem with my 86 spfi a/t fwd sedan , and it never did it before ,it only has 82,000 miles on it , i was using a dura - blend castrol 10-w 30 , then 1 day last week it started ticking pretty bad , [ temp outside 40 degree] so i changed the oil /filter to chevron 15w-40 , within 100 miles the ticking was all gone , and did and still has good oil pressure

[idosubaru]

when HLA's first start getting noisy an immediate oil change regardless of brand, weight or type will often quiet them down.

 

i've also seen instances where changing the oil weight will help as well.

[Bucky92]

Here is a guestion about using the Mystery oil...If you run this stuff in a leaky leaky...wont it make the leaks worse?? I know as a fact my motor is gummed up..I have seen it.I have held off using this to keep my leaks under control until I get around to doing the gasket changes.I am also afraid to run a heavier wieght oil for the same reasons...gummed up motor..dont want to clog up any of the small ports. Its getting to the point I am about to get a custom plate for my car saying TKOFDTH.

[idosubaru]

it's debatable, maybe or maybe not. MMO is probably less impactful in those terms than ATF or synthetic motor oil.

 

also depends on oil leaks. we were working on kevins (myphalyx) XT6 and his crank seal was about to come off, it was cocked in place and wobbled by touching it and leaked. that kind of leak is not going to get any worse by adding MMO. but on cars of this age, usually it's the gaskets that are leaking. valve covers, heads, cam carrier/head junction. whatever you do, keep changing your oil. it's easy to think you're adding new, fresh oil so why change it. not so - keep your eye on your oil color. change it when it starts getting dirty. you can add two quarts of *fresh* oil and the oil in the pan will still look black and dirty. get it out of there. these motors (the HLA's) do not like dirty oil. they will seize, they will get stuck, they will tick.

[idosubaru]

tighten your valve cover bolts. the grommets get worn, sometimes snugging them up will drastically reduce oil leakage. it's very easy to do with a 10mm wrench and takes very little time. 5 minutes maybe, it's worth a try.

[WoodsWagon]

Why refer to the noise as the tick of death? These engines aren't damaged any by the lifters, maybe the camshaft takes a bit more of a beating, but the only part that suffers is preformance. if the oil pressure is still good, then the bearings are still getting oil, so there is no death involved. using refrences to death for common lifter noise makes some edgy, and more likely to ditch their cars over a not so severe problem. People get edgy over noises, and the lifters can get quiet loud, so why tell them it means DEATH?

[Bucky92]

Why refer to the noise as the tick of death? These engines aren't damaged any by the lifters, maybe the camshaft takes a bit more of a beating, but the only part that suffers is preformance. if the oil pressure is still good, then the bearings are still getting oil, so there is no death involved. using refrences to death for common lifter noise makes some edgy, and more likely to ditch their cars over a not so severe problem. People get edgy over noises, and the lifters can get quiet loud, so why tell them it means DEATH?

I personally like calling it the tick of death...because I get sick and tired of trying to explain it to non-soob ppl. If I had a dime for every time I was told to put some oil in my car I would have enough to......maybe fix it:grin: So now when someone says something about it I just call it the ToD and chuckle to myself. I mean I was edgy at first cause with anything else this would be a major problem...then thanks to this board..I learned different.

I mean I had an 88 GL that didnt do this and my 90 Justy didnt either so I knew nothing about this problem till I got this one. But thats just my opinion..But I can understand fully your point.