mikes Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I am trying to decide between buying an automatic XT (or XT Limited) and one of the new 6 cylinder Outbacks. I would rather avoid the sunroof required in all the 6's. I'm sure no one out there has an opinion on this subject. My test drive clearly demonstrated the higher torque of the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Erm....eh.....is that the Forester XT Turbo, or the original Subaru XT coupé from the eighties? I assumme the Forester, and I would choose the Outback. Better handlind, better looking, and that six-cylinder makes a lovely sound :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Erm....eh.....is that the Forester XT Turbo, or the original Subaru XT coupé from the eighties? They sell an Outback XT now in the US. As for my choice, I would choose the XT because you can not get an H6 in the US with a manual gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I am trying to decide between buying an automatic XT (or XT Limited) and one of the new 6 cylinder Outbacks. I would rather avoid the sunroof required in all the 6's. I'm sure no one out there has an opinion on this subject. My test drive clearly demonstrated the higher torque of the turbo.I would get the turbo 4 with the manual tranny, the manual has a better AWD system then the auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbiker Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 If you're after the automatic, go with the H6. No turbo lag, significantly less risk of head gasket failure, a timing chain instead of a belt. Probably much longer engine life if that's a concern for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 It depends on what you want. If you want to feel the wonderful boost throwing you back in your seat when you mash the gas and are willing to put up with the slight turbo lag that it has at about 2000-2500rpm (like all turbocharged engines), and want the extra 31 ft-lbs of torque, go with the turbo 4. If you want your torque NOW regardless of engine rpm, or just like the idea of a flat-6, or what have you, and you're willing to settle for 219 ft-lbs of torque as opposed to the turbo 4's 250 ft-lbs, then go with the flat-6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Flat 6 all the way. Not sure why someone said the manual has a better awd system as it definately does not. The auto XTs I've driven have horrible turbo lag (i.e. mash the gas, go 50 feet like a normal Legacy then look out!!!). To me not a lot of fun, besides, in the long run the 6 will be cheaper to maintain and will always have tons of torque regardless of where you are in the power band. Then again, I'm slightly biased . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Not sure why someone said the manual has a better awd system as it definately does not. Hate to burst your bubble but the AWD system is different between Manual and Auto. Automatic-equipped Subarus use a computer-controlled hydraulic clutch pack, similar to those found in an automatic transmission, to transfer torque to the rear axle when the sensors detect a 20% difference in axle rotation speeds between the front and rear axles. Normally torque is split 90 front/10 rear. Not really all that different from most of the other AWD systems. Manual-equipped Subarus use a viscous coupling, similar to a limited slip differential (and certain full-time 4WD transfer cases) where under normal, dry circumstances the torque is split 50/50 until the physical difference of the rotational speeds of the axles causes the hydraulic fluid in the coupling to heat up to the point where it acts as a clutch, forcing the two axles to turn at the same speed. It's basically the sameas full-time 4WD without the extra low gear. It can transfer torque front and back almost 100/0 or 0/100 if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 depends if your going to keep the car past warrenty? if so then i would go with the outback 6 or the outback turbo 4 there is a differnce in the motors from the xt to the outback in turbo fourm. the outback has a detuned STI motor in it so you get all the nice things from the engin work done on the sti, on the other had the xt has a base 2.5 that has been turboed. in my huble oppion it like the old ea82 cars(loyal, gl) ok motor, then they turboed it and it sucked.,....... while the turbo in the legacy outback is more like the ej22t(early legacy turbo) it started out as a great motor and when the turboed it it held up....... anyway bottom line is if your going to have this car for a very long time then go with the best motor you can find. inho its the legacy turbo or the H6...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Better not let THAWA see this argument I prefer the manual AWD because it's always working when you need it (and coz I prefer manual anyway), but the auto AWD can probably offer slightly better gas mileage, and can be turned into 100% FWD for towing purposes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 tailgatewagon, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Outback is not turbo unless it's an XT, and if it is turbo, it IS the detuned STi motor. In fact, any 2.5 turbo in Subaru's lineup is the detuned STi motor. They are all the EJ257 block and they all have the AVCS DOHC heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Hate to burst your bubble but the AWD system is different between Manual and Auto. Automatic-equipped Subarus use a computer-controlled hydraulic clutch pack, similar to those found in an automatic transmission, to transfer torque to the rear axle when the sensors detect a 20% difference in axle rotation speeds between the front and rear axles. Normally torque is split 90 front/10 rear. Not really all that different from most of the other AWD systems. Manual-equipped Subarus use a viscous coupling, similar to a limited slip differential (and certain full-time 4WD transfer cases) where under normal, dry circumstances the torque is split 50/50 until the physical difference of the rotational speeds of the axles causes the hydraulic fluid in the coupling to heat up to the point where it acts as a clutch, forcing the two axles to turn at the same speed. It's basically the sameas full-time 4WD without the extra low gear. It can transfer torque front and back almost 100/0 or 0/100 if necessary. Not sure where your bubble burstint tool is but I realize they are different and you just said it yourself that the auto is better by explaining it. Granted if you wanna be an offroader, manual is better but not much when you compare it to a true high low old subie trannie. I own all the types of vehicles I have listed above and for a ROAD VECHICLE (which is what the Subaru is) by far my SVX has the best set up of all to get the power to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikes Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 I would get the turbo 4 with the manual tranny, the manual has a better AWD system then the auto. RW, Thanks for the feedback. I am pretty sure that I want an automatic for my next car. The new 5 speed automatic on the XT's has the convenient steering wheel gear selector that can be used to combat turbo lag while cruising in "drive". Unfortunately SOA doesn't offer this feature in the new 6 cylinder models. Your comment about the 90-10 torque split (front to rear) seems to conflict with the sales info from SOA. Do you have any references about this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikes Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Flat 6 all the way. Not sure why someone said the manual has a better awd system as it definately does not. The auto XTs I've driven have horrible turbo lag (i.e. mash the gas, go 50 feet like a normal Legacy then look out!!!). To me not a lot of fun, besides, in the long run the 6 will be cheaper to maintain and will always have tons of torque regardless of where you are in the power band. Then again, I'm slightly biased . I've gotten a number of replies indicating that the H-6 is probably cheaper to maintain and longer lasting than the turbo 4. Is there a historical record supporting this statement? Just looking into the engine compartment makes me think that the engine comes out if you are doing any significant maintenance for both engines. Are the head gaskets stronger on the H-6's? Thanks. Note that I have pushed a clutch enough times for one lifetime and I am set on getting an automatic. The G35X Infiniti is another option I'm looking at although it really doesn't have enough room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 RW, Thanks for the feedback. I am pretty sure that I want an automatic for my next car. The new 5 speed automatic on the XT's has the convenient steering wheel gear selector that can be used to combat turbo lag while cruising in "drive". Unfortunately SOA doesn't offer this feature in the new 6 cylinder models. Your comment about the 90-10 torque split (front to rear) seems to conflict with the sales info from SOA. Do you have any references about this problem. Here is the link to the Subaru Site 5 spd = Continuous Auto = Active http://www.subaru.com/allwheeldrive/ver2005/index.jsp I would not say it is a problem with the automatic, just the awd system on the 5 spd is Viscous-Coupling which is superior to the set up used in the Auto. The Auto system still works very well. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential9.htm IMO a turbo auto is ok but a manual would be my choice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 By the way guys, any Outback XT or 3.0R AT is going to have VTD, so the split will be 45/55 not 90/10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAezb Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 When looking at the differences and considering between the OB models, it should pointed out that the OB XTs are a few thousand dollars less than the 3.0R and VDC OBs. I could not justify the added cost that Subaru and the dealers are asking for the H6, nor did I want the leather trim that is the only option on the H6 models. My opinion is that the H6's are priced a bit too high, and that the 2.5 turbos will far outsell them. And I would give the Forester credit for being more nimble, having much better visability, and having better (larger) cargo access from the rear gate. I think the 2005 2.5 turbo is actually quite refined, and several friends and family members have made similar comments. And Sport Shifting using either the shifter stick or the buttons on the steering wheel is just plain fun - you can't help but grin. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 hum i guess i must have my info wrong...... i thought only the legacy got the detuned sti motor and that the forester was a differnt beast yes stil ej25 but no t the same varient as the sti .........l anyway ill stop miss leading now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamhilow Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I just bought a new Outback Limited. I wanted the r3.0. but it only comes with taupe leather interior. What is up with that. I hate that color! I wanted Black on Black and got it but had to settle for the manual and the 4 banger with turbo. If you get the XT limited, you will not be disappointed. Even though it is heavily optioned it is not overly optioned. A comparable Explorer has a better stereo and more features like, compass, auto radio volume that has written messages capability. But it is a Ford, and drives like one. My XT is like my 91 Loyale. Overkill it is not. Even with the 17" wheels and 55 series tires, Obsidian Paint and black leather interior, the xt still looks practical. It is a seriously reliable car and you know what, it will remain that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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