PeterD Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 alright ive asked this before but now i have my backup car on the road and i can take some time to fix the suby. im having a big problem with the brakes. ive changed the pads on the front and blead all 4 corners but im still having problems. when i use the breaks it feels as if the front brakes are not doing anything. all i get is breaking from the rear. when its wet out as it was last night if i have to slam the brakes on the rear breaks will lock up. this is not normal on my car or on my vw. . could this be a sign of bad front brake calapers. they do have 200k miles on them and when i went to push the pistons in when i changed the pads it was very very hard ( and yes i know yuu have to turn the piston to make it go back into the calaper. can anyone point me in the right drection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 alright ive asked this before but now i have my backup car on the road and i can take some time to fix the suby. im having a big problem with the brakes. ive changed the pads on the front and blead all 4 corners but im still having problems. when i use the breaks it feels as if the front brakes are not doing anything. all i get is breaking from the rear. when its wet out as it was last night if i have to slam the brakes on the rear breaks will lock up. this is not normal on my car or on my vw. . could this be a sign of bad front brake calapers. they do have 200k miles on them and when i went to push the pistons in when i changed the pads it was very very hard ( and yes i know yuu have to turn the piston to make it go back into the calaper. can anyone point me in the right drection. Not trying to slam ya' here but did you turn the caliper in or did you try to force it back first? It sounds like the calipers are sticking. Did you lube up the slide pin on the mounting/backing plate? Did you bleed them yet? If the fluid is real old it should have the fluid changed. Brake fluid attracts water and can actually absorb it over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 well i noticed that the piston dosnt slide in so to make it go in you have to turn it. and i also remember lubing the slide pins, they slide back and forth quite well. i think its sticking myself now that i think about it. do they make rebuild kits for these subys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave valiant Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Yes on the rebuild kit.I would have to say it sounds alot like bad calipers myself.Whenever I do any brake work I like to flush out the lines by over bleeding them,I don't know if this is the best method but I have never had any problems with it.Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 mine have 205,000 miles on them and work great. i do have a rebuild kit ready for whenever i get around to it or they fail. i just did a set for myphalyx and it was straight forward to rebuild them. i had never done it before and bought the kit and completed the job with no problems. can't beat it for 7 dollars or whatever the kit costs. much better than 150 dollars for new calipers. it is very typical for the piston to be tight to push (turn) back in. even after the rebuild it was grueling to get the piston to move in and out by hand. i would suspect the brake master cylinder or fluid first. did you bleed in the correct order? did you make sure that while bleeding the master cylinder the reservoir didn't get to low and suck air into the lines? seems odd to me that you don't have any braking in the front? if both front brakes are sketchy it would be coincidental that both calipers are sticking unless something out of the ordinary happened to them....they both sat on a shelf for 10 years for instance. does your emergency brake work? that is connected to the fronts...at least on the XT6 it is. it will help seat the pistons and pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudrat79 Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 As Gary Suggested......Did you have air introduced to the System at the MAster cylinder....? If so, Try bleeding the Master itself......There wil be one or 2 bleeders right on its base......Ive had several cars come to me with this symtom.......Air gets trapped right at the MAster or in the MAster, so you only get half a plunge working for you, and 90% of the time rears work first...due to smaller slave at the brakes...... Hope this Helps, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 well i did bleed the breaks when i changed out the fronts. but i didn't know you can bleed the master cylinder itself. and yes the e-break does work and it is conected to the fronts. so i guess that could through out the stiking calaper idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 well today i went to bleed the master cylinder and the front calapers. everything went fine. i then went to take apart the rear drums to check them out and see if anything is not together correctly. i then put them back together and adjusted them with the little adjusting screw on the back of the drum. now when i drive down the road the right rear tire will lock up leavig a nice black strip on te road. this is not normal. its pissing me off. Could this be the master cylinder going bad. i dont feel any pull from the front brakes. if so is there anyone in the NW that has a spare they would be willing to get rid of. i kinda need to get my car running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawoohoo Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 well today i went to bleed the master cylinder and the front calapers. everything went fine. i then went to take apart the rear drums to check them out and see if anything is not together correctly. i then put them back together and adjusted them with the little adjusting screw on the back of the drum. now when i drive down the road the right rear tire will lock up leavig a nice black strip on te road. this is not normal. its pissing me off. Could this be the master cylinder going bad. i dont feel any pull from the front brakes. if so is there anyone in the NW that has a spare they would be willing to get rid of. i kinda need to get my car running. Im gonna take a stab. How tightly adjusted is your hill holder?? The previous owner of mine had it WAY too tight so when you hit the brake, the front left wheel would lock up. the rears wernt adjusted correctly so they wernt working at all. since your RR tire is locking up, it goes with my problem seeing as my FL was acting up. I dont see how both callipers would be bad. It seems to me it would be your MC or HH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 well my dad and i just adjusted the rear drums a bit more...losening them up. we got the fronts working a bit better. i guess we just needed to drive the car around a bit more. im still thinkig there is a small problem with perportioning between the front and rear but im not sure what cold cause that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Did you have a problem before you changed out the front pads?? The front pads can be a pain to get in right. If you notice, the little metal clips that hold the pads in can easily get knocked around and shifted. If the pads are not riding flush with the rotors, they will not make full contact. I have replaced the front pads on a subie only 4 times, and every time those clips get screwed up, or are just old and brittle, and I have to replace them to do the job right. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 you didn't really mention anything about the fronts, are they working okay now? "they are working a bit better", what does that mean? give us some specifics, noisey, vibrating, not braking, slow braking, mushy pedal..... what do the fronts do now when you brake? how do they work if you just use the emergency brake? i'm going to be gone for a few days so i'll probably never see this thread again. that being said, you might want to ask someone what happens when a brake booster goes bad. i've never had to replace one or know anyone else that has either, but if you can't track this problem down you may want to look there. this is the part that connects to your master cylinder and bolts to the firewall in the motor. it's essentially most of the linkage from the brake pedal to the master cylinder. i wouldn't get too frustrated, brakes are really simple to work on. calipers, hoses, master cylinder. buy another master cylinder if you have to and swap it in (bleed it properly). get a used one if you cant' afford a new one, should be easy enough to find. the master cylider might even be rebuildable but i've never looked into it. i got a new, rebuilt one for a friends volvo for like 10 or 15 bucks from Discount Auto Parts. calipers can be rebuilt yourself for a couple dollars. front caliper rebuild - remove caliper from rotor (leave the hoses attached!). wrap caliper in towel. keep a good eye on how the boot and seal are installed so you can reinstall them properly. keep pressing the brake pedal until the caliper piston comes out. (have bucket underneath to catch all the fluid). now clean everything up really good. install the new seal inside the caliper, be sure to grease the seal. intsall the piston and new boot and you're done. the piston is difficult to turn, be sure to have good tools and be patient. dont' think anything is wrong, it's just difficult because it's a tight seal, it needs to be or it'll leak. bleed the brakes. i think you can get the kits for under 10 dollars (this includes enough seals for BOTH sides!). try www.thepartsbin.com or www.rockauto.com. good luck, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawoohoo Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Oh earlier i believe you said that the e-brake did infact work. this was also the case when my HH was too tight. i could use the e-brake all i wanted but as soon as i touched the brakes it would poop on me. so again, hows your HH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 ok im just going to follow up on the problem and how it got fixed so if any one else has a similar problem. I jacked up the rear of the car and took off both brake drums. i cleaned both sides out real well with brake cleaner, adjusted the adjustment screw so the drum could be sliped back on. ( both sides were in very good shape with no real serious pad ware.) after i instaled both drums i adjusted the adjustment bolt untill the wheel couldn't move then backed off untill the wheel moved, i did this to both sides. though im really not sure what the proper way to adjust them is, my dad seemed to think we did it correct. after i did that i blead the system real good both front and back and also the master cylinder. After all this the rear still was locking up, acualy more than it had before. After alot of tossing of tools i went inside to have a fresh hot cooky :cool: came out side and my dad had driven around the block with the car and somehow fixed my problem...he drove around and applyed the brakes and it managed to do something but now the rear dosn;t lock up and i feel the front helping out. i personaly think its a master cylinder problem, somethig could have been stuck and it just happend to get unstuck. i hope this is clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Did you round off the leading edge of the rear brake shoes? If this is not done, the breaks can self actuate, causing them to lock up, like you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I agree with Ross's comments about rounding off or chamfering the edges of the shoes, also l have not seen any mention of the rear drums being machined, the thing with cast iron is that it's soft, and as we all know brakes get pretty hot and with this drums can go out of round, and more likely if one tends to jump on the pedal, (not that l suspect you of this), as for the fronts, a classic master cylinder problem, it's either air or your master is due for a rebuild. Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Not that I want to complicate the issue, but consider finding a set of rear disks at the local wrecking yard (all the parts will cost you around $75 locally) and replace those rear drums. It makes the brakes work much better and rear disks are much easier to service than rear drums. You and your dad can come by my place and install them (I've done over a dozen of those conversions); it shouldn't take more than two hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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