why oh why

[PeterD]

sup new guys...im just ventureing into this side of the board....and i just found out that GM has been selling the Forester under the Chevy badge :-\ im not sure what countrys though...does anyone have any info on this....i thing its lame,..badge engineering is dumb they have done this with saab also

 

[coloradosubarules]

Is it chevy or Subaru??? I'd like to know

[Subaru X]

oh gawd kill me now. I'm sorry but I think chevrolet and ford already own too much. Talk about monopoloy. (no offense to chevrolet owners) But I hate to see car badges on vehicles in which they had very little to no part in. As for which country it is in...I would think australia. But I could be way off on this one.

 

Just kinda cracks me up that there is a huge population out there that claims japanesse cars "suck" and to buy an american made car.

 

Hmmmm well what is that "American" car....looks like a Japanesse forrestor to me.

 

If I recall chevrolet took part ownership of subaru back in 1998 I think. I never thought I would see it as going as far as chevrolet badges on the subarus. Hmmm I wonder...is there going to be a metro with a subaru badge now??? or an AWD Cavalier with a subaru badge? LMAO

[coloradosubarules]

I do not like chevy or ford. I love Subaru! I don't care how cheap it could be...take that damn bowtie off it!!

[GLCraig]

Yeah this was brought up a couple of years ago on the old board. They wanted to introduce the forester in the India market and there were no Subaru dealers there so the rebadged them as Chevs. And CM owns 15% of fuji heavy industries wich is the parent company of Subaru.

[PeterD]

i was reading a little more and it seems its rebadged for India....

[Novakaine]

Yeah, I am thinking india as well, based on the woman is dressed in the picture.

 

 

 

i was reading a little more and it seems its rebadged for India....

[Bucky92]

That pic just about made me hurl! How can you degrade a good Subaru with that ugly bowtie.

 

I wont own an American car..reason being I can't afford the upkeep of them. They spend more time in the garage than on the road.

Oh what a shame.

[Ranger83]

sup new guys...im just ventureing into this side of the board....and i just found out that GM has been selling the Forester under the Chevy badge :-\ im not sure what countrys though...does anyone have any info on this....i thing its lame,..badge engineering is dumb they have done this with saab [sic] also

Why is it dumb? It allows manufacturers to distribute the development costs over a larger number of users. lowering costs. And it's GREAT for us consumers, since it allows all sorts of new safety, handling, ride, and performance improvements to reach low and mid-price brands like Subaru.

 

Developing a new "platform" costs up to two billion dollars. You have a Scirocco, a low-volume product that was made possible by using the Golf chassis. All SAABs use other platforms. The larger ones are built on an Opel chassis. The "new" Ford Freestyle is develope on a Volvo chassis. The Jaguar X, Lincoln LS and new Ford Mustang all use the same chassis. (BTW, SAAB is an acronym and is all capitals).

 

With the number of manufacturers developing AWD "Crossover" vehicles, Subaru would be road kill without some sort of economy of scale. General Motors is providing that.

 

Think about what a chassis is. It's a big stamped piece of sheet metal with suspension mounting points. The stamping dies required to make them, however, are incredibly expensive and can sometimes take years to manufacture. Humans being roughly the same size, cars tend to be aimed at particular market classes of similar size and performance, so building new stamping dies doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

GM and Ford don't have anything like monopoly power. They've lost domestic market share and Toyota is now #2 worldwide, supplanting Ford. GM's global partners include20% ofFiat Auto SpA (who owns Alfa Romeo and Lancia); 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (Subaru), 49% of Isuzu, and 20% of Suzuki. They completely own Holden, Opel, SAAB, and Vauxhall.

 

Ford owns all or part of Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, and Volvo. Daimler Chrysler owns Mercedes and Chrysler, plus six heavy truck brands and has a failing) partnership with Mitsubishi. Renault owns a hunk of Nissan. BMW owns Rolls Royce. And they're all making "new" brands like Acura, Infiniti, Mini, Scion, and Smart.

 

You cannot buy a new car that doesn't have shared technology. Go look at the SAAB 9-2 and think about how many people who buy one would be in the market for a Subaru Impreza. I'd bet a dollar that SAAB 9-2 buyers are generally older, more affluent and probably includes more women, based solely on their market position. It's a no-brainer and road tests indicate it looks and feels a lot different - just like the differences between your Scirocco and a Golf.

[cookie]

A few years a go both Toyota Corrollas and Chevys (I think they were called Novas) were made on the same line at the Fremont plant.

The Chevys were cheaper new and lost thier value quickly. Savy consumers could pick up a good Corrolla with a Chevy badge at a bargain.

[bajavwnsoobnut]

is there going to be a metro with a subaru badge now???

I'm guessing you havn't seen a 96-00 Justy then lol it IS a AWD metro

[coloradosubarules]

it's as simple as this...

 

Chevys are junk, fords are junk. I drive a Subaru because I can dependonit to get me where I need to go with minimal problems. IF more people think this way, then by chevy sticking thier badge on a perfectly good Subaru...People aren't going to want to buy Subaru's because they are going to be associated with chevrolet.

 

Here is the breakdown for people who do not know:

 

Chevy = geo = hummer = GMC= Pontiac = Some Izusu back in the day = some jeep engines

Toyota = Lexus = Scion

Nissan = infinity = Datsun (not past 86)

Ford = mazda = lincoln = mercury = jaguar = land rover

BMW = mini

Porsche = Porsche

Mercedes = Mercedes

Subaru = Subaru

Dodge = plymouth = jeep = mopar

 

I'm sure I forgot some..

[mattocs]

I didn't see the link in here, but here it is

 

http://www.chevrolet.co.in/content_data/AP/IN/en/GBPIN/001/BRANDSITE/index_forester.html

[SevenSisters]

Sad but true. Subaru = Forrester = Chevy = GM = Vega = Citation = Cimmaron = Nova = Corolla = Toyota = SAAB = WRX. Where will it end? I could go on all day.

 

It's world market folks. Don't be fooled by the badge. There will be good cars and there will be bad cars. Lets just hope Subaru quality does not continue to slip even further under GM influence. It's your job to find a good car, not just buy a badge. Look at Consumer's Reports reliability ratings before you by any car if your looking for reliability.

 

I always laugh at the Cadillac buyers that bought the Cimmaron. It had the Cadillac badge, but was a platform adopted by Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, and Cadillac and was a piece of crap. I suspect Cadillac wanted a entry level Caddy. Made on the same line by the UAW and engineered by cost conscious GM engineers. I wonder how many sales it ultimatly cost them?

[bajavwnsoobnut]

actualy Porsche=Volkswagon=Audi=Lamborgini=Bentley=Bugatti=Seat=Skoda

 

and as for Datsun they still make Datsuns but you don't realize that it is one if you ever see some of those small overcab delivery trucks that have the logo that has a circle and then in the middle says UD that is translated to Utility Datsun so they are still around and owned by Nissan still but don't make what you would think they would make lol

[Subaru X]

Ah yes the justy...the only inline subaru that I know of. Wasn't it Isuzu who made the 3 cylinder inline inside the justy? Not a big fan of Isuzu either. But heard some stories about how the justy's were still tough.Hmmm that would be fun to put an ea-71 in a justy.

[carfreak85]

Why is it dumb? It allows manufacturers to distribute the development costs over a larger number of users. lowering costs. And it's GREAT for us consumers, since it allows all sorts of new safety, handling, ride, and performance improvements to reach low and mid-price brands like Subaru.

 

Developing a new "platform" costs up to two billion dollars. You have a Scirocco, a low-volume product that was made possible by using the Golf chassis. All SAABs use other platforms. The larger ones are built on an Opel chassis. The "new" Ford Freestyle is develope on a Volvo chassis. The Jaguar X, Lincoln LS and new Ford Mustang all use the same chassis.

 

Think about what a chassis is. It's a big stamped piece of sheet metal with suspension mounting points. The stamping dies required to make them, however, are incredibly expensive and can sometimes take years to manufacture. Humans being roughly the same size, cars tend to be aimed at particular market classes of similar size and performance, so building new stamping dies doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

You cannot buy a new car that doesn't have shared technology. Go look at the SAAB 9-2 and think about how many people who buy one would be in the market for a Subaru Impreza. I'd bet a dollar that SAAB 9-2 buyers are generally older, more affluent and probably includes more women, based solely on their market position. It's a no-brainer and road tests indicate it looks and feels a lot different - just like the differences between your Scirocco and a Golf.

You are talking about chassis sharing. That is a good thing, we can all agree. What Peter was talking about is badge engineering, where you take a Subaru and put a chevy badge on it.

[Novakaine]

Whats the connection between VW's and Subarus? I see alot of dealerships that sell both. For some reason, I always assumed that they were connected somehow.

[applegump]

In europe Chevrolet is rebaging ALL Daewoos with Chevrolet! Looks like a step up for daewoo to me!

[AK-Brando]

In europe Chevrolet is rebaging ALL Daewoos with Chevrolet! Looks like a step up for daewoo to me!

Seems to me Chevy did that with certain Suzuki products over here a number of years ago.... The famous (or is it infamous?) Geo lineup. Geo/Chevy Tracker = Suzuki Sidekick/Vitara, Geo/Chevy Metro = Suzuki Swift

[Strakes]

My parents are from India (I was born and raised in the USA, but have visited India numerous times) and some of our family in India love the Chevy Forester so much that my parents are considering a Subaru Forester for their next car. If that happens, that may mean that an Indian Chevy just sold a Subaru to Indian-Americans in Houston, Texas.

 

The forester is perfect for the market in India because most of India's roads are not paved...mostly gravel and dirt where ground clearance is really important and sitting up high is nice to see over all the cows and water buffalo blocking the road.

 

Chevy rebadging it was great, because more Indians from the region where my family comes from in India know of GM and Chevrolet than Subaru...it's a brand recognition thing. Chevy had tried to sell cars there before the Japanese ever did.

[JT95]

I may be chiming in here a bit late on this thread, but I just read through it for the first time.

 

While I'm not much of a fan of anything new from the Blue Bowtie, I'll have to say that I have had some very impressive experiences with Chevy. Of course, I am aware that my opinion of the brand is based largely on what they put out in the muscle car arena years ago, and the smallblock Chevy is one of the greatest engines built--ever. GM has rolled out some crap (usually when they tried to make a Japanese-like car) so I understand how that smears their name. Still, if I paid $20,000+ for a new Subaru and had an expensive repair bill from a blown head gasket like several have (if that was my main Subaru car experience), I'd call Subarus junk probably.

 

I hate to hear people generalize about all American cars being crap. I've had some pretty negative experiences with Japenese cars along with some good ones. Many of the greatest cars from automobile history have rolled from Detroit. I love Subaru, but in a heads up performance contest, I'd put my bet on a good ol' Buick Grand National from the 80s running against a WRX turbo.

 

I think rebadging the Forester was a good idea. A Subaru in India would not sell because people aren't familiar with it. I doubt they would pull that stunt here in the US, though. GM will probably be good for Subaru. At 20% ownership, they don't really have the leverage to change the Subaru, but they have access to borrow from them. Chevrolet cars built on Subaru platforms/drivetrains (if they ever do that) would mean more $$$ for Subaru and, ultimately, make them a stronger company. In the big world of the auto industry, Subaru is a pretty small player, so it was just a matter of time until someone bigger got a bite of them.