s'ko Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 So I had a short day Thursday so I go wheeling with a friend of mine. Long story short I hit a rock with my Tranny and I knock a hole in it. Manage to limp the BRAT over to a parts shop and I get some more gear oil and a tube of that permasteel putty stuff. It hold long enough to get me home. I take my wife to her christmas party in the BRAT and when we leave, there is a huge pool of gear oil. Luckily we live about a mile from her work. So I get more of that putty stuff on Saturday and I patch it. After putting more oil in it still leaks. Cleaned it off the best I could and it's down to a drip. So... At this rate I am going to have the entire bottom of my Tranny covered with that stuff. What's the best way to get the oil to stop leaking. I think welding is a bit late b/c it now covered with a huge patch of epoxy. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stngllhm Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 i'd say time for a new tranny. hey just put a 5-sp dual range in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 i'd say time for a new tranny. hey just put a 5-sp dual range in I would but I just put a d/r 4 spd in it last month. besides that would give my new wife a fit. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yumabrat Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Well..... a jb-weld testemonials say that some guy fixed a hole in his engine block with a bolt and two washers and some jb weld. He opened up the engine case.... placed the bolt and washer through the hole.... sealed the inside with jb-weld........ placed another washer on the outside of the case...... sealed it with jb-weld.......... bolted it down and then let it cure. I am not sure that this could be done with the transmission. I know on the my brat there is not one smooth place on the transmission housing (all sorts of indentations and milling marks) This is just something I read this on the package, once....... not sure how this repair job would actually perform...... This could just be another outrageous claim made by a company to sell their product...... who knows?! Just an idea, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Assuming that this is not near a structural web or anything, drain the oil, take the tranny out, clean clean clean the area all around the hole. If the hole is very small, use some JB Weld to cover the hole and some surrounding metal. If the hole is not small, use some material to use as a patch, and use JB Weld to secure the patch. Allow to cure completely before filling with oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 if it's gear oil and cracked by the differential, it's definetly not pressurized fluid so it shouldn't take much to hold. i would drain all the oil and clean the area up good. wire brush the crap out of it then spray it down with electrical contact cleaner or some other non-residue leaving cleaner to make it perfectly clean. then weld it shut dude. you're done, never worry about it again. soobs last forever, if you fix them right. JB weld will work for a limited time, but i wouldn't consider that a permanent solution, particularly if you plan on any wheelin. and if you're like me you don't necessarily plan for all the wheelin you do. being right on the bottom, who knows what will hit or jar any JB weld loose. that stuff does work very well, but welding is THE solution and very easy to do. if you can't weld or known anyone who does, any muffler shop or machine shop would probably weld a small hole like that for next to nothing...maybe even nothing if they're nice. for that matter if it is the differential, some high quality oil resistant high temperature sealant squished up into the crack or hole would probably work (since it's low pressure) if you clean it really good. i think i could make that work, but i also think it's a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Aluminum tranny=TIG or experienced MIG. Kind of hard for average DIY, not sure that many muffler shops I have known will do TIG. I don't know that sealant would work any better than JB-W, but not enough personal xperience to debate it. Whichever way you do it, let us know what you did and how it worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hole is right where the tranny is connected to the t-case. At this time there's a glob of Permasteel there. I am going to drain the oil on Thursday and clean it like crazy. Then take a dremel w/a grinding bit and score it up to allow the epoxy to bond to something. Then spray w/Carb cleaner until it's not greasy anymore. Then use the permasteel again. Hopefully I should be able to get a good seal this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 then make or have made a skid plate to cover up all that stuff some different shots of one here..... http://usmb.net/gallery/album238 it was made from a Gen1 Skid plate. covers the exhaust too.... "bash away" was the quote from the guy who cut/welded mine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 :-\ im not sure about using mig on something like that. it would have to be a larger than average unit to have enough heat. that and you need a a spool gun. no TIG or maybe stick (if you have the expierence) is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 :-\ im not sure about using mig on something like that. it would have to be a larger than average unit to have enough heat. that and you need a a spool gun. no TIG or maybe stick (if you have the expierence) is better. I may be way out of date (last welding training was '81), but I haven't heard of any way to stick weld aluminum. Maybe they have come out with some neat fluxes, but last I heard a gas shield was needed. My MIG can do 3/8 inch aluminum no sweat, and what we are probably talking here is a patch, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I purchased a pound of AL435 aluminum stick welding rod a couple of weeks ago, just to futz around with. Today I got it out and played with it. The stuff WORKS. Rather amazing how well it works. But damn it burns fast. Electrode positive, about 50 amps, and I was fillet and butt welding scrap pieces of 6061 T6 (3/8" plate) with no preheat and getting surprisingly good penetration and fill. While Im not sure Id want to fly in an airplane welded by me, with this stuff, its more than suitable for putting Stuff together with. As fast as it burns, I stitch welded a pair of 1" welds in fillet and a 1" weld on the backside of a L assembly of 3/8 plate..then beat the snot out of it with a 2lb hammer. The assembly was Very deformed before the welds started to fail and examination showed deep penetration into the parent metal. Slag was quickly removed with a wire brush in just a couple swipes. The rod smells distinctly different when burning. Actually kinda pleasant smelling <G>. An odd property, at least to me, a newbie, was too much heat simply melted the rod and did very little to the parent material. It simply flowed over the plate like braze, with little penetration. For those of you who do not have a TIG machine and need to weld up aluminum, all you need for rough welding, is a DC welding machine . Ill be using more of this stuff in the future. At 50 amps for the smaller rod, this stuff could be used by somone with one of the cheapy Harbor Freight machines, as long as it has DC. I didnt think to try it with AC, but I will. The data sheet spec'd DC Positive, so thats what I ran. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Theres no way you are going to have any piece of mind running around with that transmission if you JB Weld it. Im sorry but if are worrying about your new wife not appreciating the fact that you have a hole in your transmission then you have a bigger hole to patch than the tranny. This isn't meant to be harsh sorry if it comes across that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Thanks, EL. Is this personal experience, or someone you trust? Where can I get some to play with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 Theres no way you are going to have any piece of mind running around with that transmission if you JB Weld it. I have done some more research on various boards and it seems that permasteel/JB weld is widely used to repair trannys. Im sorry but if are worrying about your new wife not appreciating the fact that you have a hole in your transmission then you have a bigger hole to patch than the tranny. This isn't meant to be harsh sorry if it comes across that way. No prob. all advice is appreciated. Biggest thing that is a factor is that she grew up with primarily her mom and the opinion that if you raise the hood of a car more than twice a month it's too much. Considering it's a 22 year old BRAT w/217 on the odo. That's impossible. I have to work her into the fact the soob is reliable. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Thanks, EL. Is this personal experience, or someone you trust? Where can I get some to play with? from a very knowlegable guy. i guess any welding supplier like http://www.mcmaster.com/ or MSC or some local supplier will have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 i'd also be concerned about pieces of the JB weld or permasteel breaking off inside the transmission. i don't know what this hole looks like, but go pushing some of that compound up in there, some may break off and get sucked into the trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 the hole is more like a chip in the casing. It's where the transfer case mates up to the tranny. I would say it's about 1/2 a dime in size. Problem right now is that the epoxy was put on when the bottom of the tranny still had oil in it. There are little channels that allow the oil to keep running out. I have a decent sized drip. Will be draining the oil wednesday night and cleaning it real good Thursday night. Should have it back together by Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Can you take a picture of the chip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Seriously, just weld it. Any decent engineering workshop should have a TIG welder. It will only take them a couple of minutes and the transmisison case will be as good as new. Go somewhere that specialises in aluminium welding, they will already have the correct electrodes and filler wire. Its really not a big deal to do, i'd do it for you myself if i lived a little closer! In my opinion, even if you do have to pay someone to do it, its better to spend this money and have a reliable fix than to do it cheap and have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 I plan to drain the oil tonight and have it all dry. I seriously doubt I can get the epoxy off to either weld it or take a picture of the chip/hole. I tried scraping the epoxy w/a hammer and it really didn't do much but put some minor scratches. I was about 30 miles from home and there was no way I was going to try and limp it home w/no gear oil. Will let you know after the Christmas how things work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ... I seriously doubt I can get the epoxy off to either weld it or take a picture of the chip/hole. I tried scraping the epoxy w/a hammer and it really didn't do much but put some minor scratches... Dremel??? with abrasive bit, maybe diamond-coated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Any grinding wheel will do the job ok. Another option would be a die grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsterbrat Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Say you are a newlywed? Well us married guys have to work things a little differant patch the hole the best you can. Save a little every week buy a 5sp tell your wife someone give you a trans they had laying around ... works for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Ok. If you do happen to have a hole/nick in your tranny that starts to spew out your gear oil. 1) if you are on the trail and you can drain the oil, do so and then clean it up as best as you can. Then put some of that permasteel putty or similar product, to stop the leak. This is the gray stick of epoxy with a black core. It hardens usually within 5-10 minutes (BE CAREFUL NOT TO GET ANY ON THE GEARS. What works best is if you make a flat patch first and then smear the patch onto the damaged area) Refill with oil and limp it back home. 2) Once home if you can remove the tranny and get it welded that would be best. If you can't, read on. 3) The field repair probably didn't stop the leaking. Drain oil and clean off the hardened epoxy completely. Then get carb cleaner and spray the area down really well. Sand or score the area to make a rough surface for the epoxy to bond to. Then make a flat patch and put it on the damaged area. Smear more epoxy around the edges and let harden. Repeat as often as desired. Remember to sand/score the area that you are going to apply more epoxy. 4) Refill with gear oil and drive. Monitor for gear oil puddles under the car when you have parked it for a while. (Gear oil tends to be yellowish and motor oil tends to be black) 5) This will only seal the hole in the tranny. It will not stop any cracks that have formed from spreading. For that you must have the casing welded. 6) determine how the hole happened. If from wheeling, see if a skid plate can be installed/rigged up to prevent future damage. Hope that helps. BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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