Lets talk about Jiffy Lube again!

[asavage]

Originally posted by duane b

Does anyone remember the Ford Exploder/Firestone Tire fiasco?

Those were defective tires. Ford's screwup wasn't in the 26 PSI spec, it was in trying to cover up the defects in the tires when it became apparent that a lot of Explorers were rolling when the bad tires blew. Run those tires at 40 PSI, they'd still delam.

 

There a a lot of rigs running around with 26 PSI spec, and you don't see any news about them rolling.

Don't slam Les Schwab too much, they are by far the best tire store around the PNW

Let me tell you about my Les Schwab experiences.

 

a) Ferndale store: asked to have a new premium battery installed, and rotate tires.

 

* They rotated half the tires (it was very obvious). I had to point it out to them to get it fixed.

* They didn't install the terminals properly on a top-post battery (ie they didn't use a terminal spreader, so they mangled the OEM cable's end and didn't get the terminal all the way down the posts). I didn't let them fix that one, afraid that I'd find hammer marks on the terminals (never, never hammer on a battery terminal.)

* On my SecoLarm, if the battery is reconnected, the alarm sounds and the doors lock. They cut the alarm's siren wire because they couldn't figure out to push one button the key fob -- after I'd told the counterman how to press that button and warned them what was going to happen.

 

Lynden store: incorrectly diagnosed a bad CV joint as a bad spindle on a Taurus. Bad spindle??

 

c) Bellingham store: SIX TRIPS to find a tire imbalance problem on my G30, never found, though they took over $200 in the process. I wasn't running their tires, so they kept blaming out-of-true rims, out-of-round tires, etc. I kept bringing them new rims and new tires, but they never got it right, and at trip five they said it was really a driveline imbalance. I let them send it out and have it rebuilt. Result: ruined driveshaft, and drastically increased vibration. I had to write corporate HQ in Prineville, Ore. to get that one resolved. It took months. It was awful.

 

d) So. 82nd St store, Portland: screwed up two tire mountings on 16.5" non-split-rim tires, so bad that I had to warranty the tires with Goodyear. I don't know who paid for that one.

 

Yes, they don't keep you waiting and are usually deferential, but the quality of the franchises varies considerably. I work with two ex-Schwab employees, they tell the same stories.

 

You can't defend Schwab to me, I've had too much experience with them.

 

(BTW, I have had good experiences with a couple different Schwab stores, to be fair. The Sandy Blvd/22nd St store in Portland is good -- they didn't fix the G30 problem, but at least they didn't try to snow me, either. But most have not been good for me.)

[SubaruImpreza_Power]

here is a new one.. I once got the oil changed at Express Way in Norwalk.. After the guy changed the oil he said the Radiator fluid needed to be filled up (Just got the car like 4 days ago 98 Forester) We we was talking to the person that was out in the front because he did not know what it ment when the fluid was low.. Then he goes as ask me if i wanted to change the PCV valve I was like No sir don't need you to touch that.. Anyway Having said that I got the PCV thing replaced by my self

 

Then comes along oil change 2.. Another Express way.. You know how they like to change your Air Press. without telling you.. Well idiot changed them all to 32 psi.. (more on this later)

 

Ok oil was changed and they wanted me to used this oil cleaner stuff so I said ok (did I say the right thing?) Then the guy that changed the oil he said "ummm Subaru's says that the Differintal.. (he forgot the word and I had to say it for him) He said yeah that needs to be changed after a cerent amount of miles. He asked if I wanted it to replaced... I gave a firm NO..

 

And about those tires.. Which btw the bill came to $83 or so... I took a first turn at a speed under 25Mph.. EVERYONE was looking at me like I was nuts and doing 80mph and the back end felt loose and squirly.. So I took it to a free air place and put in the right amount on the door seal and no more problems.

[pianodirt]

Okay, so I did my first check on the rear diff oil on my 87 soobie yesterday. I had just been to the grease monkey and they always say they check about a dozen different things, one being the rear diff oil, all in about 5 minutes. There was dirt and no sign of being touched recently in and around the bolt hole. It took me 20+ minutes to get the damn bolt loose! I had to revert to the jack under the rachet handle withe a cheater bar, but I finally got it loose. If the monkeys had just finished it, it should've been done easily!

[duane b]

Originally posted by asavage

Those were defective tires. Ford's screwup wasn't in the 26 PSI spec, it was in trying to cover up the defects in the tires when it became apparent that a lot of Explorers were rolling when the bad tires blew. Run those tires at 40 PSI, they'd still delam.

Are you a tire engineer? Auto engineer? Sorry, but you won't convince me that Ford had nothing to do with the fiasco nor will you convince me that UNDERinflating tires is a good thing. It WAS the underinflating the exaserbated the tire and roll over problem. Since when did tire delaminations result in rollover accidents?!? Running tires at 40PSI will STILL result in Ford Exploders rolling over.

I will still shop at Les Schwab because they treat me and everyone I talk to (with the exeption of you), right. Nobody is perfect but if you alienate all tire stores then who are you going to get tires and service from? Goodyear? Firestone? Discount Tire? Have a great time! I've been screwed by all of them. I've found something that works for me and I will stick with it. If you've been screwed over SO many times why did you keep going back? You seem to complain a lot but you offer no positive suggestions or aternatives. This is all too typical of people in the puget sound region. Like complaining about the weather when you can't do a damn thing about it.

[kevinsUBARU]

Originally posted by SubaruImpreza_Power

here is a new one.. I once got the oil changed at Express Way in Norwalk.. After the guy changed the oil he said the Radiator fluid needed to be filled up (Just got the car like 4 days ago 98 Forester) We we was talking to the person that was out in the front because he did not know what it ment when the fluid was low.. Then he goes as ask me if i wanted to change the PCV valve I was like No sir don't need you to touch that.. Anyway Having said that I got the PCV thing replaced by my self

 

Then comes along oil change 2.. Another Express way.. You know how they like to change your Air Press. without telling you.. Well idiot changed them all to 32 psi.. (more on this later)

 

Ok oil was changed and they wanted me to used this oil cleaner stuff so I said ok (did I say the right thing?) Then the guy that changed the oil he said "ummm Subaru's says that the Differintal.. (he forgot the word and I had to say it for him) He said yeah that needs to be changed after a cerent amount of miles. He asked if I wanted it to replaced... I gave a firm NO..

 

And about those tires.. Which btw the bill came to $83 or so... I took a first turn at a speed under 25Mph.. EVERYONE was looking at me like I was nuts and doing 80mph and the back end felt loose and squirly.. So I took it to a free air place and put in the right amount on the door seal and no more problems.

 

They overfilled my radiator reservoir last time I went to Valvoline. What they dont realize is that the full line is like 2.5 inches from the bottom of the tank, not 3 inches from the top:-)

 

I always tell them not to touch my tire pressure. Some have the balls to ask what pressure is currently in them but those guys are rare.

 

I tell them no to everything they offer me, and just say that I did it like a month ago.

[99obw]

I remember when all of that firestone tire business was going on. Somewhere I heard that some of the tires that they were considering replacing the wilderness xt with actually had higher failure rates. That makes me wonder why we are even talking about it, and why it was even an issue then. Shouldn't we be talking about one of the tires with a higher failure rate? Obviously somebody really pushed the issue.

[cookie]

to drive a car that rolls over when it has a flat anyway, no matter what caused it.

If you check Ebay today you will see my Jeep for sale. I think in SF traffic the Forester is a heck of a lot safer car to drive.

I hope if my Forester has a flat it will just allow me to roll to a stop with the rubber side still down.

[stephenw22]

Originally posted by cookie

to drive a car that rolls over when it has a flat anyway, no matter what caused it.

If you check Ebay today you will see my Jeep for sale. I think in SF traffic the Forester is a heck of a lot safer car to drive.

I hope if my Forester has a flat it will just allow me to roll to a stop with the rubber side still down.

 

I don't know if "rolling" to a stop should be something to hope for!

[cookie]

choice of words.....

[asavage]

Originally posted by duane b Are you a tire engineer? Auto engineer? Sorry . . .

 

If you want my resumé, please post your position offered. Otherwise, you'll have to ask a lot more nicely.

 

I didn't ask for your qualifications to post here. Do you think it's relevant to require a BA or PhD to be able to list your experience with a business, or to post an (informed) opinion? I might as well ask, "what makes you know what you know", but it's not necessary.

 

but you won't convince me that Ford had nothing to do with the fiasco . . .

 

Heavens, where did you get the notion that I want to convince you? Go do your own research, form your own opinions -- they're like armpits, everyone's got a couple.

 

. . . nor will you convince me that UNDERinflating tires is a good thing.

 

You are mistaken: 26 PSI is the recommendation for tires on several current model vehicles. Toyotat 4WD vehicles, for one off the top of my head. You don't hear of a lot of RAV4s rolling due to underinflation, do you?

 

It WAS the underinflating the exaserbated the tire and roll over problem.

 

Nope, it was a suspension instability that was exacerbated by defective tire blowout that led to rollovers and deaths. The tires were not underinflated. Again, 26 PSI is a spec still in use -- though not by Ford for current Explorers

 

Since when did tire delaminations result in rollover accidents?!? Running tires at 40PSI will STILL result in Ford Exploders rolling over.

 

I completely agree.

 

I will still shop at Les Schwab because they treat me and everyone I talk to (with the exeption of you), right.

 

Just for fun, try this: use your favourite search engine, search on the phrases:

 

"les schwab" lousy

"les schwab" bad

"les schwab" ****ty

"les schwab" terrible

 

Read few stories.

 

My point is that Les Schwab is not good to everyone but me. YMMV

 

I've found something that works for me and I will stick with it.

 

That's what most of us do, I suspect.

 

If you've been screwed over SO many times why did you keep going back?

 

Good question, one I'm happy to answer:

In the beginning (many, many years ago, before I aquired as much, er, experience as I now have), I was awed by how Schwab trained their folks to interact with us peon customers. Every other tire store I'd used treated us like cattle. "Those pesky customers" is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

Schwab always seems to want my business. I want to encourage businesses to acquire and develop this attitude.

 

It was only after several bad experiences with more than one Schwab that I began to discern the pattern, that being one of friendly but not always knowledgeable Schwabites. Ref. my short list above.

 

I will admit that I am a demanding customer. If I pay somebody for service, I'm going to get that service. It's going to be done right (as far as I can ascertain), and the rig is going to come back to me as clean as I gave it to them. If not, there's always hell to pay. I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect good service, and I don't pay for bad service. And I know the difference.

 

You seem to complain a lot but you offer no positive suggestions or aternatives.

 

Huh? I don't think I've complained "a lot". I complained that our local Schwab refuses to utilize the recommendations of highly-paid automotive engineers. Then, when you asked for us to not bash Schwab, I listed my valid and relevant experiences with Schwab to justify my panning of the Schwab empire in the PNW. Targetted and specific.

 

I'm not offering any alternatives or suggestions because there are a lot of folks reading this who don't live where I do and couldn't make use of my advice if I recommended Bill's Garage or whatever. Generically, I advise to support local businesses (wherever your "local" is), but that's only Step Zero: beyond that, you have to do your own research for your area.

 

This is all too typical of people in the puget sound region. Like complaining about the weather when you can't do a damn thing about it.

 

Well, this has nothing to do with either Jiffly Lube or Schwab. You're broadly generalizing about the residents of an entire region, and your conclusion is based upon faulty logic. And it's useless discussing faulty logic. Perhaps your comment is inspired by your particular environment (ie Renton). There's a lot of Puget Sound that is not Renton, I assure you. And not everybody here has moved from California, bringing their driving habits with them, though if you have to commute on I-5, I doubt you'd believe that.

 

I can remember when the Totem Lake area was all blackberries. Sigh.

 

You want to discuss tires or Quick Lube joints or anything Subaru-related, or you just want to yell that Al doesn't have any positive suggestions?

[asavage]

Originally posted by cookie

to drive a car that rolls over when it has a flat anyway, no matter what caused it.

. . . I think in SF traffic the Forester is a heck of a lot safer car to drive.

 

LOL

A couple of years ago (3 or 4), I was driving my old dsl Maxima wgn down through SF, running along at the limit, and I heard this loud bang/clang. Sounded like a bolt came off something rotating and hit some sheet metal. I could hear it over the CD I was playing. Hmmm.

 

So, I signalled and got over on the shoulder, what shoulder there is, in CA there are a lot of concrete sound barrier walls right next to the right lane, so there is barely enough room to pull off the road, and getting out of your car is really scary.

 

I popped the hood, then carefully exited the car, walked around the front and began to open it, when I noticed that the RF was lower than the LF. Looked over, the RF tire was shredded. And flat, of course.

 

I never even knew I had a blowout.

[cookie]

during the last big quake on of my friends was driving down 101 near the airport.

He thought he had a flat and pulled over.

He looked back and there were about a hundred cars pulled over looking at thier tires......

I have had a number of flats on vehicles over the years. A couple of them in high 4WDs were a little scarey, but none of them went into a roll.

The Ford is just high and narrow and people think they can drive them like a car. Apparently they had tires that did not hold up well and a suspension that tended to roll if they had a flat at high speed or in a position with high suspension loading.

It is a shame that those folks had to die for nothing and that is one of the reasons I bought the subie.

It seems to be fairly safely engineered for this type of vehicle.

[stephenw22]

I worked for a summer in a Ford dealership's "Quick Lube" bay. It sure opened my eyes to how a lot of those quick oil change places work. We didn't make much money off the oil changes themselves, since we used good oil and a good filter.

 

Where we made money (and commission) was on all of the other services and stuff we'd push on the customers when we did the oil change. 13, 25, or 40 point inspection? It was just what we'd do to find things that needed "replacement". The best way to make a sale on extra stuff was to put a little fear in them, or tell them how it can hurt the car.

 

"A dirty air filter can reduce your mileage"

"A broken belt will leave you stranded on the road"

etc., etc.

 

There was one guy there who would replace the air filter on every car, and if the customer was annoyed at all, he'd just say the old one was dirty, and that he could put the old one back in if they wanted. Customers were in a hurry, and almost never bothered, even though they didn't need a filter.

 

Another tactic was to get a new filter, and show the customer (in the waiting room) the difference between their "dirty" filter, and the new one. The problem is, air filters look about as dirty (superficially) after 5000km as they do after 20000km, so a lot of customers would go for that one.

 

We'd sell a tire rotation for $35, and it would take about 10 minutes to do on the lift. Tranny service was $70, and took about 20 minutes.

 

We made $5 in commission for every belt, tire rotation, tranny service, diff service, or other service appointment. Also, we made $2 off each air filter or set of wiper blades (another common item to replace).

 

Right from the start, I couldn't stand taking advantage of the customers, so I'd do all the checks, but I'd only suggest extra work that really needed doing. Even then, sometimes I'd tell a customer to buy the parts and do it themselves, because it would be so easy.

 

After 3 months, I was talked to by my boss about how I wasn't selling as much crap as the other guys. I told him that it was because the cars I saw didn't need it. Then, the next week, I gave my notice. It was definitely the low point in my career as a human being.

 

Other lovely things that a lot of those places do:

 

- Re-use the crush washer (or use no washer at all), and just spray paint around the drain plug after cleaning it off. The warm engine dries it quick, and it seals up the drain, even without a washer.

 

- Skip steps (like greasing chassis points) if they're in a rush. In high school, I had a friend who took his old '51 chevy 1/2 ton to a jiffy lube, and watched as they struggled to find all 13 grease points. He even counted as they did it.

 

- Topping off dex-cool systems with regular antifreeze (a no-no). Most of those guys are in high school, and don't actually know they shouldn't.

 

- Saying they'll do a tire rotation, and then just loosening off and tightening up the lug nuts to make it look like they were changed. Also, tightening up the lug nuts with the impact wrench, and not checking torque.

 

- Losing the valve stem caps, or not bothering to check the spare tire pressure, or even asking to check the spare.