91 loyale in Syr Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 My 91 loyale has the oil leaks coming from the front. Not sure which seals are leaking but Im under the impression that if I go in there I should do them all. I brought it to the local independent shop and they said they would replace the waterpump(appears to be leaking) the cam and crank seals and both timing belts for $475. He said the timing belts get compromised when they get oil on them. I have a lot of mechanical experience and could probably do it myself if I had a garage, there wasnt snow on the driveway and it wasnt 15 degrees outside. I looked inside and it looks pretty tight in there. Is this job done from the top or bottom? Is this a good price to have someone else do it? Any advice/thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 done from the top. 475 sounds about right for seals, water pump and timing belts. could be found cheaper, but that's not terrible. make sure he reseals the oil pump properly. there's one gasket and one seal on the oil pump shaft. a nonsubaru specialist could easily miss doing that right. same goes for the cam shaft, behind the seal holder of the cam shaft is an oring that also should be replaced. it comes in a camshaft seal *kit* which includes the seal and oring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 you could do it yourself if you like, just know the right procedure that makes it easiest. work from the top. if youre doing the water pump remove the radiator but other than that it can be done without opening the cooling system the ac/alt assembly will come off as one piece. remove the long hexd bolt, and the other bolt closest to the crank just loosen it. flip up the alternator and remove the 12mm bolt from the bracket, and the 14 on the intake. you may have to remove the adjustment pulley, if its the left hand type screw be sure to loosenthe nut on the pulley! you can change a belt with all this on but if youre driving seals you will want the room you have to remove the crank pulley and dipstick to remove the plastic. the bolts on the bottom of the plastic there are nuts behind. sometimes the fittings crack, use even torque. if the bolt just spins you can pop the cover off with mild persuasion from a screwdriver since you will take it apart down to the seals you may as well pitch the plastic covers if you figure you will be under the hood often this is convenient. if you changed a timing belt it would take 10 minutes and not 3 hours. i recommend it form my own example, as others will, and to me it seems with the absence of covers any leaking oil will drip away instead of collecting on the timing belts its fun you should give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I would not pitch the plastic covers, as ANYTHING (particularly a small stone or bit of gravel) that could get on the teeth of the timing belt could cause it to snap, and leave you cursing by the side of the road. (I have seen this happen to a car before) The covers are there to prevent that. That said, you could punch some *small* holes in it and vent the T-belt that way. Better still, fix the leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 if a timing belt snapped due to something getting in the teeth, how would you know after the fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 not to turn this topic into an arguement but a stone is highly unlikely to throw a belt. most likely it will be kicked out. it is even more likely a stone would never make it to the timing belts to begin with. anyway i go off road with open belts thru shrubs and 6ft tall weeds, gravel, mud, never had a problem with reliability anyone here running open belts would swear bt them the only reported belt failure was due to a loose rag under the hood. it took 10 minutes to fix off the side of the road, with 3 tools all i am saying if you like to play with soobs its more convenient. if it breaks so what fix it in 10 minutes, keep a spare in the trunk. it saves you from having to remove ANYTHING to change a timingbelt, other than the alt/ac belts. if you cnange the oil pump or water pump you dont have a bunch of crap top remove opinions will differ, but there are the ones who know and the ones who dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenw22 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 The covers/no covers issue is one that comes up every now and again. If you are into doing all of your own maintenance, just leave them off and keep an old set of belts in the car as a spare. If you're going to have a shop do it, just leave the covers on. From my experience, yhey charge you by the hours it says in their book, whether or not the covers are there. I've been running on gravel roads for about 1 year now using my '88 that has no covers. Before that, it spent about 1 year doing city/highway driving. I've never had problems with broken belts, and I've been through tons of nasty mud. I was actually a little worried because this last summer was one of our wettest in history, and the roads became horrible, but nothing broke. I didn't even wash the car until the fall. The first time I do any t-belt or re-sealing work on one of my cars, the covers are the first thing to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 When the stone fell, it scarred all the pulleys and got jammed in the vicinity of the oil pump (so it was still there). I don't know if it was a freak ocurance, or if it is a real possibility, but I personally would not take the risk as I use my soob as a daily driver. Really, it does not take long to install/remove the covers, the hard part is getting the crank pulley bolt off. (and it really isn't that hard if you put a screwdriver in to lock the flywheel. Other than that, it is pretty straitfoward and easy. I doubt if is really even necessary for the radiator to be removed (especially if you have a good angle on the wrench), though it does add space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 loyale in Syr Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Are these seal kits readily available at auto zone or napa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 To change the cam seals, it looks like all you have to do is take the timing pulleys off, remove the camshaft support, then replace the seal around it, right? My wife's loyal has oil everywhere, so I'm planning on doing this job sometime as well. About the timing belts, couldn't you cut the cover that's behind the crankshaft pulley in half? Would that give you enough room to remove it with the pulley still on? It's been a while since I looked at mine to see. Also, you could still run with that cover off, but the two other covers on. my 0.02c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenw22 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 For each camshaft holder, there is a seal and an o-ring. Also, don't forget about the crank seal. I have this as a 3-4 year ritual on my cars. This is what I do: cam seals / o-rings cam case o-rings oil pump o-rings / seal front crankshaft seal timing belts water pump o-ring oil pump (if necessary) water pump (if necessary) valve cover gaskets / grommets (if necessary) other hoses, etc. (if necessary) The cam seals and cam case o-rings seem to start leaking after 2-3 years, but I just wait until it's time to change timing belts before I do everything. Even then, the leaks have never been too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 The cam seals and cam case o-rings seem to start leaking after 2-3 years, but I just wait until it's time to change timing belts before I do everything. Even then, the leaks have never been too bad. Case in point - my soob still has its original seals at 145k (all city) and I don't leak (much) it eats less that a quart per 3,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom63050 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 By all means do it yourself. Just keep putting oil in it until it warms up enough that you feel like doing it. So it costs you a couple of quarts, so what? I'm reasonably mechanically skilled, a little more than oil changes, and have done oil pump seals, cam seals, the front crank seal, and belts. Also put on my lift kit. It's all very doable and there is plenty of expertise here to get you through it, either archived or you can ask questions and get responses. The hardest part is getting up the courage to try something new, like that first jump off the high dive. I wimped out on chucking the timing belt covers. Did a compromise and cut the center cover in two so I could get it off easily. Removing my covers adds about 3 minutes to the job. If you keep them on, use anti-seize on the bolts. About the water pump appearing to be leaking: there is a metal pipe between the top radiator hose and the oil pump. The leak might just be the o-ring that seals the metal pipe where it connnects to the water pump. Get a new o-ring, lube it with oil/grease (antifreeze hasn't worked for me there as a lubricant), and slip the pipe back onto the water pump. Cheap, simple, easy fix that just might be all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Listen to MilesFox. HE knows what hes talkin about . Open covers are the way to go. some members will say that you'll get oil or antifreeze on your t-belts.. yeah you might, but it will just spin off any oil or antifreeze that gets on them, instead of oil/antifreeze leaking into the covers and spinning around inside the covers and constantly recoating the belts. to what Tom63050 said about the waterpump pipe. - if you ever take that out, you HAVE To replace the oring. they are a one time use oring. you may get a second use out of it, but its gonna suck when the oring finally goes and you crack some heads because you didnt change the 10 cent oring 85Sub4WD - "the hard part is getting the crank pulley bolt off. (and it really isn't that hard if you put a screwdriver in to lock the flywheel." This is the EASIEST PART OF THE JOB. put a 22mm on a 1/2" 18 inch breakerbar. on the crank pulley bolt. now brace the breaker bar against the core support on the driverside of the car. (where the raid sits against on the buttom) now unplug the coil to disty wire and bump the starter for about a half second. Done deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 NAPA will have gasket sets but they may be soewhat pricey. i know that you can get a PAIR of head gasets at napa fopr the price of ONE gasket at autozone, but i live in indiana where subaru parts are NEVER in stock, and un available half the time(a-zone, advance) it would be more economical to but the gaskets separately, as if you get an entire "reseal" kit wit will come with gaskets for turbo, spfi, and carb, and you will have extras a head gasket set itself from napa is about 80-90 bones, it will have the head gaskets, valve seals, the o-rings for the cam towers(very important) and i think also intake and exhaust gaskets if you get headgaskets individualy you will have about 50 in for a pair, the o=rings cab be had at a hardware store cam, crank, intake and exhaust seals will averager about 5 bucks apiece, the intake and exhaust will come as a pair depending on your shopping you should score everything within 75 to 100 bucks depending on what set(s) you may get or where you get individial seals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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