Geocritter Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi again, guys... Ok, I think I narrowed down most of my running problems to a fuel supply issue. Dont' know the first thing about what all needs to be checked (or how to). 87 GL Wagon 4wd, 1.8l engine, Hitachi carb 2bbl Gas drains out overnight, and she will NOT start. Can't hear if the pump is kicking in on "run' or not. I can pour gas down the carb and make it run, though, and once it gets going, I can keep it running. 1. Fuel filter has been replaced 2. I know there is a sensor of some sort for the fuel pressure to turn the pump on and off. Don't know where it is, or how to check it, though. 3. Don't know why a pump would not work, then work, then not work again. I *think* the pump on this one is outside the tank? Any thoughts? I'm getting really frustrated (so is my other half!!!). I gotta get this thing on the road. thanks, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 You seem to have a bad fuel pump or fuel pump control module (I am leaning toward pump). There is no pressure sensor, but there is a revolution sensor/fuel pump control unit located above the driver's side kickpanel. (they usually don't fail) Fuel pumps run as long as the engine is turning over, a fuel return tube eliminates the need for a pressure switch. The pump is located ahead of the right rear tire above a protective plate. For some reason, fuel pumps on carbed soobs do not seem to just "fail", they just start to work intermitently (which is real interesting if you are driving it and it stops and comes back on). I'll bet that's your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Dan, Here is a trick to try in a situation where you would normally have the problem (cold start in the morning for instance) turn the key on and then to start for 1~2 seconds turn key off (must be in the off position) do this three times then pump the gas pedal three times and crank to start consider switching to a used Weber 32/36 DGEV if you have a minute read this it says EA81 but your EA82 will respond similarly Weber carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 My Fuel pump had an intermittant short in it that drove me nuts It would just die then for no reason at some point it would allow me to restart and go on my merry way :-\ The dealer hooked up a light to the fuel pump to see if it was the cause of my problems. It worked...the light told the tale of what the pump was doing? My bet is the fuel pump! Your Fuel Pump Control Unit may be on the fritz but my experience is that they fail or work, none of this work not work stuff... Good luck, Glenn 82 SubaruHummer 01 Forester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thanks everybody. I do appreciate your experience. Sounds like everybody's leaning toward the fuel pump being posessed. Glen, 85Sub4WD - thanks for the input. Sounds like ya'll have been through it all, too. Skip- I'll give the 3 on/offs a go in the morning, just for grins if nothing else. Do I click my heels together three times, too? Of course, if my wife sees me in her ruby slippers... [hey, you KNEW that was coming!] I know that I could use a new carb, but right now it's kind of out of the question. If the fuel pump is the issue, I can make the carb hold out well enough, between the new manual choke and all. I always did like Carters a lot better, though, for the record (my old Dodge 225 slant 6 had a single bbl carter, manual choke...it was so simple, and worked so well). I'll keep everybody posted. Thanks again, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Dan Heel clickers and ruby slippers optional. Please do the trick as typed . One of my Brats has the same carb leak down problem.. Good luck, I hope you find nothing is wrong but the carb leak. We sometimes jump to conclusions here a bit quickly. Facet pumps (sold by JC Whitney, NAPA and others) are a good semi cheap (~40 skins) replacement for the factory pump if ness. see this link Facet Fuel pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thanks Skip, I'm going to give it a try before I leave for work this morning. It'll either work or it wont. No ruby slippers, though...my workboots will have to suffice. Maybe if instead of clicking my heels together, I just kick the car... dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 I do see what the trick does, though. It gives enough 2-sec pump bursts to give it a chance to fill the line and the carb with enough fuel to start...just like if I put gas in the carb, the engine is "running" and the pump is pumping long enough until it finally builds up and will run on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 absolutely correct. turning the key to the "off" position prevents the electric choke from heating and opening. the three pumps prime the engine and sets the choke properly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Sigh. Didn't work. It fired off one time (rumbled), and that was all. I tried the process again to see if I could get some fuel up in there, but no dice. Back to the drawing board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 whats the temp you may have flooded it this time Pull the aircleaner top hold the choke plate open with a screwdriver reach over and pull the throttle cable do you see any gas squirting from the accel pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 I'll check it when I get home. I have a manual choke, so I know it's open. I didn't smell gas like I used to when it would flood, but maybe I'm just not "tuned" to it. Temp outside this AM was upper 20's. I'll let you know... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geocritter Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Ok...did the key on/off thing, and after a couple of rounds it started. It's loping a little bit until it warms up; exhaust doesn't smell right, either (it's still got water I think, plus the drygas I put in it, so....). Anyway...took it for a spin around the block. Running a little rough, and the carb's got a wicked dead spot. Also acts like it's lacking some power. Can't tell if it's not getting enough fuel or if it's flooding and not burning it fast enough. Kind of back where I started. Don't know if my main problem is the carb or the fuel pump. If it's the carb I'm screwed, as I'm not *permitted* to put much more into the car. Fuel pump would run me 50.00-ish, which I might be able to squeeze out before too long. A carb's gonna set me back 200.00 for a rebuilt one...unless anybody's got a lead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markman34 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Why is the gas draing away from the carb overnight? The fuel pump must be working somewhwat to make the car run. There is fuel in the carb when you shut it off. Correct? But, the fuel must drain back to the tank/pump due to gravity. Perhaps a leak in the carb/fuel line allows air into the fuel system. Without a way for air to get into the fuel line to replace the gas, the fuel cannot drain back to the tank/pump. (vacume locked) I have found that a very slight leak in the fuel line or carb will allow the air in, and the gas to drain back to the tank! Though, isn't the fuel pump on the subaru located above the carb? Just my two bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 The pump is by the tank, passenger side. I know you said you replaced the fuel filter. If this is like an EA81 Carb, there is two filters....one by the pump and one in the engine bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 its a 87 carb'd... only one fuel filter located before the fuel pump in front of the passenger rear tire. Do you have to pass emissions down there? If not, strip all the vacumn lines off the carb and intake. get caps that fit over them. they sell them in sets. the blue ones and red ones were the ones I used. 1/8" and 3/16" I believe. just make sure any line you take off, you plug off. You should have two or three vacumn lines left when you are done. One for the cabin heater controls, one for the egr valve, one for the vac advance on the disty, and the 1/2" brake booster line. they rest of the stuff can go. there is one line that runs from the firewall to the evap cansiter, that is a fuel tank vent. that needs to be left open Now you have a happy carb, and a engine that looks ALOT cleaner and everything is 10x easier to get to. pull the fuel return line off the carb after trying to start the car. does fuel spill out of that? if so, you are returning too much fuel. pull the fuel line off and crank the car. fuel should spill out. It doesnt spray out on a carb'd car. if you got fuel when you crank on it, your fuel pump is working. if not go to a you pull it junkyard.. fuel pump fits in your pocket, go in to get an light cover or something off a car and pull the pump for free. a vacumn leak would make your car run like crap when its cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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