1987 Water Pump - Better pick right one..

[LuckyPistol]

I did a search and didn't find anything about this so..

 

Well, Well, Well,.......

 

For those who read about my nightmare with my 1987 Subaru Gl 1.8L repair recently. This is kinda of a follow up to what caused my Ultimate problem after picking up my car from the repair shop.

 

I will get to the MOST IMPORTANT water pump issue......just keep reading please.

 

 

Look up my thread entitiled "1987 fan clutch" to get the first part of the story. I will add this comment onto it, to make sure it gets this update.

 

 

But to make a long story short, I took my car in to get a oil pump replaced.

All I really needed (to be honest) was the "mickey mouse" gasket replaced.

But after getting some great feedback here about what else I should get replaced , it was SUGGESTED that I go ahead and replace oil pump, water pump, cam and crankshaft seal and timing belts.

 

Now, all these parts are relatively inexpensive. And considering most of the labor cost is getting to the oil pump, these other parts are a non-brainer to go ahead and get installed.

 

 

Well, I buy all the parts. I get an estimate from a few shops. I pick a shop in the middle of the price war.

 

Well, to make a long story short. The shop had a few problems uninstalling a few major parts (causing my bill to exceed $1,000) Needless to say, I thought that would be the end of it. So, after I pick up my car, I noticed major grinding noises.

 

 

Well, I took it back, they took off belts, listened, and came to the conclusion that it was my power steering pump. They say $325, I say, NO, NO, I will pick my car up thank you.

 

 

So, I take it to someone who doesnt really work on subbies, but is a very good mechanic and HONEST. He has it for about 15 minutes before he sees what the problem is. The water pump pulley HAS SHEARED off the studs and bolts.!!!!! And metal shavings are everywhere.

 

 

Then I realized something that came back to haunt me......

 

 

 

I remembered that when I was ordering the WATER PUMP, there were "2" sizes to choose from.

One was for a FACTORY installed A/C , and the other was for a DEALER installed A/C. Well, I inspected my A/C system and it looked FACTORY to me, so I ordered accordingly.

 

 

MY MISTAKE. I ordered the wrong type, and it really cost me big. I had to buy another , have them remove and replace.

 

 

SO, make sure you GET the right one, because it can be installed and run for awhile, before grinding and a knocking noise alerts you. And hopefully it doesnt shear off completely or could be major damage. Mine almost came off !! Another 10-15 miles and it would of, fanclutch, radiator,etcc. would of been runed.

 

 

My question to anyone is, HOW can you tell if it is a FACTORY installed A/C. as opposed to a dealer installed A/C???

 

No mechanic I asked knew how. But I did see a A/C tag under the hood, that looked like it was put there by the dealership. It was under a bolt and not glued down (like the factory usually does with engine tags, etc..)

 

 

Maybe thats it. But thanks for any help, and hopefully this will help someone avoid in the future what happened to me.

[calebz]

1 - I always take my water pump off and take it with me to show them which one it is.. saves arguing with the parts guy

 

2- one of the pumps comes with the pulley attached, one does not (at least thats what I have seen when looking at reman'd pumps)

[All_talk]

I believe the factory A/C has the compressor mounted inboard of the alternator (closer to center) and the dealer installed is just the opposite with the A/C compressor outboard nearest the battery.

I do know that one water pump is taller than the other, I think factor A/C is the taller one, and dealer A/C and non-A/C are the shorter, but I’m not positive on that. I replaced the one on my non-A/C ’87 wagon awhile back and still have the old one. I think the catalogs list the height, I’ll try and remember to measure when I get home.

Gary

[Snowman]

Anybody know why they made it different? There must be reason, otherwise they would save money by making it a common part.

 

Any ideas?

[LuckyPistol]

Well VERY interesting,

 

 

I have had a few mechanics here who say that the FACTORY installed A/C has the A/C compressor between the Alternator and power steering pump.

 

 

Well, that's what I thought, and mine is set up that way. BUT YET, the online parts stores (well, at least thepartsbin.com one), is saying that the "Short" water pump is for Factory installed A/C. And that is what I ordered per partsbin.com description of the part.

 

BUT, it is the LONG water pump that fit mine. Hmmmmm.....

 

I smell a blunder...

 

 

SOOOooooooooo, I was mislead my partsbin.com. ALSO, I have seen it at napa described that way too.

 

 

Well, All I can say is, just take it off and compare it to the one you need.

 

Dammit.....

[weekendwarrior3169]

I sure hope someone can answer this question. I am needing a new water pump but saw the same thing when I looked it up. I don't know which one that I need. The stop leak is not going to work forever. How can you tell for sure which one we really need?

 

 

Thanks Paul

[MilesFox]

there are 3 actory ac setups, as well as the dealer add on setups. the hitachi setup has the big round compressor, the matsu************a has the square compressor with outboard alternator, and the panasonic has a square compressor with the inboard alt

 

i find the inboard alt setup commonly on 87 era turbos

 

depending on these setups you willhav a short or long water pump

 

let me put it nice and somple right here:

 

---the long water pump is 110 mm, it has studs on the pump itself and the pulley slides onto the studs, then the fan

 

---the short water pump is 105 mm, the pulley itself BOLTS to the water pump, and the fan studs are on the pulley itself

 

so if you take the fan off and the pulley comes off too you have the 110mm pump. if you see bolts after taking the fan off you have the 105mm

 

now heres a secret. you can use either or water pump on any motor as long as you have the right pulley to go with it

[LuckyPistol]

Miles,

 

you are correct on the water pumps.

 

But still you did not indicate in detail WHICH setup was Factory or DEALER .

 

you seem to give a general description (which is ok).

 

The correct WP I finally got was the one with the thread studs on it. (the long one).

 

But still, we are left in the dark as to what the exact set-up would be for FACTORY or DEALER installed.

 

 

And I guess the answer as to why there are different sizes? It seems to me , It depended on the type A/C compressor was installed..

[MilesFox]

sorry i forgot to describe the add on ac. jim had a wagon i serviced with the add on ac, if i remember it had the long water pump

 

anyway it had i big fat rear compressor, it had some relays on the passenger strut tower that took regular aftermarket instead of the factory brown an black relays. also the hoses from the compressor where they turned metal to rubber had a clamp that looked like a modified heater hose clamp, whereas factory setups have the metal to rubber crimped like any other hose like the brake line or ps line

 

the bracketry was stamped steel and had a square hole for a 1/2 drive, you had to do swing the compressor out of the way to remove the alt or the belt. factory setups have cast iron braketry. and also the alternaor was mounted inboard on this one

 

factory ac the compressors are fixed mountsd and the add on the compressor swings away like an alternator to service the belts

 

just like add on cruise it just doesnt look right as if it was added on, or the components didnt look subaru enough