edrach Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Got this from bajavwnsubenut today. Interesting reading. http://www.scca.com/_filelibrary/File/2005rallycrossrules.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Indeed this is interesting, I wonder how these different classes are going to workout. Also, allowing every class to use snow tires may have an adverse effect on the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 I found it really difficult to differentiate between classes. From the sounds of the class structure, they "adapted" autocross classes to what they thought would be legitimate rallycross classes. As near as I can tell, I could be running against a stock WRX since there's no specific qualifier for engine displacement, horse power, etc. This might be a "real" structure in that it's driver skill and experience that really counts. It'll be interesting to see what ORG will define for classes before March 20th. Tech inspection should be a hoot also. I've always felt that SCCA national is "out of touch with the reality" of the rally sport and this seems to confirm my opinion. If I have to guess, ORG will run the class structure they set at their last rules discussion meeting with only slight modification to adhere to the SCCA guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I found it really difficult to differentiate between classes. From the sounds of the class structure, they "adapted" autocross classes to what they thought would be legitimate rallycross classes. As near as I can tell, I could be running against a stock WRX since there's no specific qualifier for engine displacement, horse power, etc. This might be a "real" structure in that it's driver skill and experience that really counts. It'll be interesting to see what ORG will define for classes before March 20th. Tech inspection should be a hoot also. I've always felt that SCCA national is "out of touch with the reality" of the rally sport and this seems to confirm my opinion. If I have to guess, ORG will run the class structure they set at their last rules discussion meeting with only slight modification to adhere to the SCCA guidelines.Ed, go back and read the part about the 'no forced induction' in the lower classes, that would eliminate the WRX from everything lower the Rally Prep. I went back and read parts of the link again, it does give the local chapters a lot of leeway with classes, but there must be a dual rating so those who are vying for national points can accumulate points in the national recognized classes. I also can't believe that a helmet that was good this year will not be good in 2006. I think I still have one of the helmets that I used back in my racing days, it is still in great condition, yet I would have to buy a new helmet just to race. I wonder if there is sum sort of waiver I could sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I'm lovin that part about the tires!! Section 3.2, A, 2-3!!The OBS is gonna be a tough nut for you competitors to crack. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Ed, since your brat has a weber, I think you would have to run in rally prepared class... well that was my understanding of it last night. Ditto with my 87 GL. I do see the class as being a bit odd, I guess we shall see how the results come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 thanks Ed for posting it and I think it is something that is interesting and also disturbing too cause it is gettin to look more like AutoX for classes and such and man did anyone beside Mike and I see the stuff about protests and also the fines from the event stuart that can be inflicted on someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Ed, go back and read the part about the 'no forced induction' in the lower classes, that would eliminate the WRX from everything lower the Rally Prep. What section did you find that in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 I finally came to the conclusion that I would be running in RP-A since the rally tires would put me there and the rear disks are likely not legal in RS-A. I'm glad I'm only there for fun since I'll enjoy it anyway. But if I were a serious competitor, I'd be pissed with only having 4 weeks to make a car legal for one of these classes. I feel for ORG since this is going to put a real monkey wrench into what they've done in the past and were planning to do this year. It will likely cost them some entries if for no other reason than some people would feel non-competitive in the class they'd be shuffled into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 What section did you find that in?OOPPPPSS my bad, I misread it, page 10, item 5, it states, "under no circumstances may forced induction components be changed (turbochargers, superchargers, intercoolers)." So I guess a bone stock WRX can race in SSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Ed, Wouldn't you have to run in the RM4 class since you have that hotter cam in you engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 And the weber... I am amazed at how your car can change classes... a CF hood bumps you up. I belive my shorter shifter would bump me up too (say if I still had a hitachi carb and stock exhaust) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 Got this version from XSNRG today; some additions and some deletions. http://www.scca-lol.org/rally/rallyx/05rallycross_classes.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 You might be right. It hadn't occurred to me; I knew I couldn't go RS4 and would have to move to RP4. Maybe have to run Open. Well that takes the decision making out of that choice. It's unfortunate since this will eliminate a lot of cars from competing since they just wouldn't be competitive in their "normal" class. Ed, Wouldn't you have to run in the RM4 class since you have that hotter cam in you engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 In the rules version provided by XSNRG they bring up rules about limited slip in the RM4 class. Anyone want to speculate if they would let someone compete in a lower class if they car came equiped from the factory with some kind of LSD and dosen't the WRX come standard with a VLSD? You know I think the ORG needs to have a general RallyX meeting to cover how they interperate these rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 In the rules version provided by XSNRG they bring up rules about limited slip in the RM4 class. Anyone want to speculate if they would let someone compete in a lower class if they car came equiped from the factory with some kind of LSD and dosen't the WRX come standard with a VLSD? You know I think the ORG needs to have a general RallyX meeting to cover how they interperate these rules. Most rear or front LSDs in WRXs are mechanical, not VLSD, but the center diff usually is VLSD. I don't understand the big deal about banning carbon brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 From John Elkin of ORG: "Before everyone starts SCCA bashing let me inform you all that these are classes for Divisional and National Rallycrosses, these in no way affect our regional ORG rallysprints. We will be keeping the same class system we always have. According to Scott Kovalik, we will be having one rallycross under these rules and I am sure we can find a home for every vehicle under these rules. The March event will run as usual, as will nearly every event this year." John Elkin, ORG Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 An excellent clarification from Scott Kovalik: John is correct... ALL Regions have the ability to run their Rally Cross events as they see fit. Oregon Region SCCA, and several other regions in the NORPAC Division along with quite a few other Regions in Divisions around the US are running their events under the older Club Rally Rules classifications . The Divisional and National Classifications, are still being worked out and still are prone to change. They may not even be the end game when it comes to 2006. This is partially the reason we are allowed and encouraged to use our current system if we feel we need to. We, the Rally Cross Divisional Stewards, will continue to review the 2005 season and once again make revisions and determinations to the 2006 rule book. You all need to understand the long term thought process of what's happening in the SCCA concerning their Rally Program..... Circuit Rally. These rule changes we are seeing suggested are being created as a blue print or stepping stone structure for future Circuit Rally competitors as opposed to using the Club Rally Rules, which were designed to creating Stage Rally Competitors back when we HAD Stage Rally. Obviously, SCCA has no inherent interest in promoting folks outside of their own programs so we should not be surprised to see the rules structure turned inward like it is. That is NOT to say SCCA cares nothing for Rally or doesn't support Rally America, but the truth remains that they want and need to retain their members and grow their programs. This is natural and right for them to do. So don't worry too much... there is alot of YEAR left for us to continue to lead the SCCA in participation and success in the Rally Cross program. As for the the "one event" using the National Structure in the Rule Book... that will be the Divisional Championship to be held in (subject to change) Salem around October/September/November.. ish... That event will hold the New Classification Structure as required by the SCCA to be recognized. I will have a "handy dandy conversion chart" for those participating to figure out where they actually FIT into that structure keeping in mind that what you HAVEN'T seen is the current count of some 12 classes of Rally Cross cars (twice what we have now) and that you may be in G2 with us but some yet unknown class for Divisional Points. Our next Divisional Steward Call is the 28th of this Month and I hope to have more answers for you all then. Of course, we will be meeting Monthly all year long as well. So stay tuned... there's MUCH more to follow. Best, Scott Kovalik YOUR Oregon Region Rally Cross Director YOUR NORPAC Division Rally Cross Steward YOUR Ping-Pong Ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 And more from Kristen Tabor: Bascially, it looks like the Non-rally street stock classes are for your regular sedans, coupes, wagons, whatever that aren't rally prepared. Rally Street prepped (2wd and AWD) sounds like Production and PGT. Rally Prepped 2wd and AWD sounds like G2, and a less-modified Open. Open AWD and 2wd Rally Mod sounds like G5 and Open. It's like they just changed the names, and added a step between PGT and Open. No biggie. Like John says, we'll still use our own classes regionally. No cause for panic in the masses. Kristen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 More enlightenment from Scott: Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:03:05 -0800 > From: "John McKean" <john@netgenracing.com> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 1396 > >If as you say SCCA is re-classifying the rules to better fit within the >structure of circuit rally than wouldn't be prudent for our region to >adopt the new rules at the start of the year. It seems to me that this >would eliminate confusion regarding the divisional competition. I have >already stated that I LIKE the new classifications. Most of us will >resist change when possible. And in this case the SCCA has enabled this >resistance by making the rule change optional at the regional level. > John, As some level that makes sense, on others it does not. It's not just Oregon Region or even one or two Regions.... the Country seems pretty split over the new structure. Even now, as the series has started, the classes are not even finalized. It is more a reality of running "with the Devil you know" in many organizer's minds. Here's the other hand... There are probably very few, perhaps no, people that would say that Solo has the appropriate amount of classes. There are even fewer people that believe that this is the direction that Rally Cross should take. Even in our own Region, we have made it a policy to keep as FEW classes as possible to engage in better competition and less "micro" management. I have to scoff when people say that Solo isn't where Rally Cross will go... We have already DOUBLED the amount of classes. And when you start to think about the folks that have an old beater just for Rally Crossing, that maybe they gutted, seated and caged, you begin to realize the disparity of tossing something into prepared just because it cosmetically fits. If you really boil down the structure, it creates a Money Cannon mentality. EXPENSIVE cars become competitive cars. "Fun" cars never will be. Ask yourself this... how would Stage Rally fair with 12 classes and the creation of rules that allow for virtually unlimited modifications in the more basic classes? These are all very real questions that are being asked and addressed currently. I'm sure that, in the end, we will have answers but as I started off saying... the season is under way. There are alot of folks that don't want to keep changing the classes and rules AS WE GO. IF it comes to that. Besides, it's alot easier (I use the term loosely) to expend the club competitors into 12 classes than restrict them once liberties are taken, back into 5. So to answer more in line with your point... yes it WOULD be, but at this point... it will be the start of 2006, not 2005. If... I say IF these new rules are even the ones we'll be using then. Believe it or not, there is still a chance that we'll go BACK to Club Rules. Wouldn't THAT be a pisser? LOL!!! And as for Circuit Rally... just about everyone is standing back waiting for everyone else to do one and then we'll see how it all functions. I mean... who's going to Circuit Rally a brand new Subaru STi? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Just in case... Circuit Rally is "combat racing" (note - different than Derby or Snake Racing).... six cars on the track at a time, battling for survival to the finish COOR style. SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!! Anyway, come and Rally Cross... have some fun... Worry about the Rules when they are "official" and we'll go from there. Scott ------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Just in case... Circuit Rally is "combat racing" (note - different than Derby or Snake Racing).... six cars on the track at a time, battling for survival to the finish COOR style. SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!! well you know what that sounds like????? it sounds like the European verson of Rallycross! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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