Dr. RX Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Hello Everyone, my car has a 2.5L Horizontally Opposed DOHC Engine and car is a 1999 Legacy Outback. Thanks. Susie KThanks for clearing that up, too many people running too many directions. I hope Subaru of North America picks up the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 You would be a lot better off money and durability wise going with a rebuilt engine for that price. It sounds to me like the timing belt broke, probably due to re-use of the belt tensioner. These tensioners are re-useable but they cant be slammed into a vise and pressed back to position and pinned like the old ones would tollerate. If that happened you likely need more than a head gasket job, including a valve job and new cams and possibly a piston or two. A head gasket failure doesnt smell like oil, it might smell like coolant and a sweet nasty smell but not oily. Oily smell indicates something inside the engine broke and in a bad way. This engine is interference meaning if the belt breaks, internal parts collide. In this case the valves and piston kiss each other and it usually screws up the cylander walls, rings, piston, cams, etc. Its probably going to be cheaper to get a rebuilt engine from www.ccrengines.com and pay the dealer to remove and replace your bad one with the fully rebuilt one. They give ya a brand new timing belt, valve job, head surfacing, etc for about what you are expecting to pay for the engine work and won't be giving you a 3 year 36k warranty or replacing every part in the engine like CCR does. This would also help you avoid the chance that the dealer is going to be saying "now we found this wrong with the engine its going to be X more" cuz the repair becomes a cut and dry case of remove old and install new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 If you do decide to put an engine in from CCR, you might want to think of putting in the EJ22, less power, but way better reliability. ~Josh~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I have a feeling there isnt a dealer in California that will put an ej22 in place of the original type engine cuz of the engine laws and smog rules there. Almost anywhere else, great suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 These are all good suggestions, a little premature since we don't know the engine's exact condition. The car had the timing belt replaced at a Subaru dealership by a factory trained mechanic. He or she, was fully qualified to do the work and inspect all the parts of the timing belt system. Which just shows you what a bad idea interference engines are. Sure, the timing belt drivetrain doesn't break very often, but it doesn't always happen to the other guy. And when it happens to you you're looking at a minimum $3,000 repair. EJ25 non-interference engine=160 hp, EJ25 interference engine=165 hp. BIG WHOOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I agree with Shawn. If you have engine damage and want to keep the car, get a rebuilt engine from CCR. They know how to do it right and you will have a new engine warranty to boot. Check out the link that Shawn gave you if you haven't done so already. This failure really puts a crimp in your travel plans. I also think there has been some compensation from Subaru on '99 models and newer for incedents like this. Hopefully the inspector will help you out. Please keep us posted on this Suzie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 The good news is that i can do the work (head gaskets or engine swap, your choice) and I'm about halfway between you and Sac. Worst case, I can pick it up from them and tow it to my place to do the work. Or you can flatbed the car to me and we can go from there. This problem has has also piqued my interest, and I'd like to see what happened in there to cause these problems. From the sounds of things, a small crak may have opened up between the oil jacket and the water jacket, at the same time the head gasket blew (this would be cause for a rebuilt engine from ccrengines) or a local rebuilder/importer. I have all the tools needed for either job, as wel as a love for these engines. My goal is to put you back on the road with a reliable engine in the car you like so much. I also have a local machinist that can look over the heads and resurface them if needed. See what SOA will do for you, and if you are not happy with them, come and see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks, Ranger83 for your reply. It's amazing about the price difference! Good that you got a voucher...And yes, thanks for for info on www.cartalk.com - I'll go there and find a local mechanic. Susie K I wrote Subaru of America complaining about having to replace the headgaskets on my car (admitedly long off warranty) and they sent me a voucher worth $1,000 off a new Subaru. The headgasket repair cost me $1,250 at an excellent independent garage, which is why there is such astonishment over the price quoted. Go to www.cartalk.com and look up garages in the "MechanX files" section. While few list Subaru specifically, many have done plenty of work on them if you call around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks, Cougar for your reply. FYI, This morning, I got a call from Subaru - the inspector saw my car yesterday and they are willing to address the head gasket problem as a gesture of good will. HOWEVER, first they want the local Subaru dealer to have a "tear down" done on my car so that the inspector can confirm whether the head gasket is where the problem is. Subaru is unwilling to pay for the tear down, so I will have to - I'll call them now to get the cost... If it's confirmed that the head gasket is the problem, Subaru might pay 10-90% of the repair (or they may choose not to pay for any of it). However, if the cyllindar is cracked, I would have to pay for that myself. There are too many unknowns for me to continue with this car. Otherwise, the car is in excellent condition inside and out. So, I've decided to sell the car. Someone out there who knows how to repair this will get an excellent car. It's time for me to give up...Susie K I agree with Shawn. If you have engine damage and want to keep the car, get a rebuilt engine from CCR. They know how to do it right and you will have a new engine warranty to boot. Check out the link that Shawn gave you if you haven't done so already. This failure really puts a crimp in your travel plans. I also think there has been some compensation from Subaru on '99 models and newer for incedents like this. Hopefully the inspector will help you out. Please keep us posted on this Suzie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 WOW! Thanks for this award; I feel so priviledged, especially since I'm the new kid on the block. All of you have been so helpful at my time of greatest tension. It's wonderful to have such a support group. FYI, I've decided to give up... I heard from Subaru this morning (Wed). The inspector saw my car yesterday and they might be willing to address the head gasket problem as a gesture of good will. HOWEVER, first they want the local Subaru dealer to have a "tear down" done on my car so that the inspector can re-visit my car and confirm whether the head gasket is the problem. Then, they will decide whether to pay 0-90% of the cost. If the cylindar has a crack, they will not pay for that repair. So, I've decided to give up - it's time to eliminiate this tension. I'll revise my original thread now with details on my car to see if any of you are interested in purchasing it. Thanks again for your support. Susie K. Susie K, I hereby award you the Mostest Politest Poster to ever inhabit this board. Miss Manners would be proud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxcess Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Susie K. 99 leg outbacks with 75k are very nice. I wouldn't sell it over lousy head gaskets. I'll bet you can find a good deal if you search. Like Dr. RX I do all my own work and wish i was closer too, "I love to snub dealers." While Californians are much closer than Washintonians, everybody knows the best mechanics are from Wash. "joking." A fairly accomplished mechanic with this site for info could maybe even do it. Best of luck, you probably even have the pretty green model with a five speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks, The Dude. Good idea! I'll give the Subaru rep a call now and let him know that I'm disappointed that they want me to pay for the tear down (even though the local dearlership told me that it is the head gaskets that are the problem). I'll let him know that this is a gamble for me. Furthermore, I'll let him know that I will not be purchasing another Subaru... I'll let you all know if I make any progress. Susie K. I would agree. There is a good chance that this engine is scrap aluminum. This is not the typical scenario for a simple head gasket failure.Susie, unfortunately you are in a bit of quandry. It is expensive even to determine the condition of the engine. If the mechanic tears the engine down and finds that the engine is a total loss, you still have to pay for having the engine torn down. I would definitely wait for the Subaru rep before doing anything. He may be able to provide some insight as to what happened to your car. You need to be very cautious. The LAST thing that you want to do authorize a very expensive repair on a suspect engine. There are other options besides repairing the engine . We can consider those after the Subaru Rep makes his call. Frankly, lean on the Rep a little. I think Subaru could have done a lot better than the 2.5L DOHC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks svxcess for your reassurance. I'll give it some thought...Susie K. Susie K. 99 leg outbacks with 75k are very nice. I wouldn't sell it over lousy head gaskets. I'll bet you can find a good deal if you search. Like Dr. RX I do all my own work and wish i was closer too, "I love to snub dealers." While Californians are much closer than Washintonians, everybody knows the best mechanics are from Wash. "joking." A fairly accomplished mechanic with this site for info could maybe even do it. Best of luck, you probably even have the pretty green model with a five speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I know that you are too polite to do this, but you should write a letter to Subaru telling them that you are selling the car rather then put up with their lack of customer support. If they want the engine torn down, they should pay for it. I wish I was closer, I'd stop by a look it over, but I think that a few closer have expressed interest already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Sorry to hear your giving up Suzie. I know this has to be pretty hard to take. Did you think about the rebuilt engine from CCR? You wouldn't have a problem with an engine from them I don't believe and if there was a problem you have a 3 year warranty. This is like a new car warranty for the engine at least. It might cost about $4,500 dollars to do this but you will have a new engine in the car basically. Where could you find a car with that kind of warranty for that amount of money? Since the rest of the car is in great shape I think you would be ahead of the game going that route. I imagine your frustration about the car is really high about now but I think you should give it a second chance. Perhaps if the Subaru rep help pay for some of the repair costs and threw in a couple dozen red roses, would that help? I hate to see a dissapointed Soob owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Yes, please sell the car to me! I have a 99 2.5 engine that needs a home :>) Lmdew@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Yes, please sell the car to me! I have a 99 2.5 engine that needs a home :>)Lmdew@hotmail.com Hey, I asked first <G> perhaps i could give the evgine a good home, however PM me with a price offer. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Oh boy! The birds are circling overhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Yes, please sell the car to me! I have a 99 2.5 engine that needs a home :>)Lmdew@hotmail.com Larry, that would be quite a tow to Colorado Springs, besides, Gnuman did ask first and is a lot closer. But like I said, if it had been closer to me, Gnuman would have lost out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 You know what the say, money talks. It never hurts to ask or offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Susie, You may want to post a separate thread in the marketplace if you plan on selling your legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Thanks, Dr. RX for your advise. Subaru told me that they are a small company and their cars are actually made by Fuji Motorswork and their reputation is important to them...But it seems that in this situation, theory and practise are not the same. Tonight, I will draft a strong letter telling them that I'm not interested in owning another Subaru due to their lack of customer service. Let's see what happens... Susie K I know that you are too polite to do this, but you should write a letter to Subaru telling them that you are selling the car rather then put up with their lack of customer support. If they want the engine torn down, they should pay for it. I wish I was closer, I'd stop by a look it over, but I think that a few closer have expressed interest already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbalu Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 A few suggestions as to what you can tell Subaru. 1. Bury the head gasket issue since the problem didn't start there. What Subaru needs to be do is to tear down the engine at THEIR cost to find out what caused the CEL light to come on and engine to loose power and burn oil. After all, your Subaru is a well maintained car based on paperwork you have and it must be the workmanship that caused it- so it in SUBARU's interest to find out what failed so that they can prevent it in future. 2. Optionally, based on findings, you would be willing to pay a maximum of 20% of total repair cost if you choose to repair it. If the problem happened due to a dealership oversight (like they put in idler pulley with worn bearing when doing timing replacement), Subaru should ask dealership to bear the cost. Worst case, engine would be 5K and it might still be worth 1K if you get a new engine from Subaru! 3. Put a link to this thread and show Subaru what kind of publicity they are getting that they can do without! Tell them this thread will live for a long time and Subaru's decision would be reflected in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie K Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Thanks, Josh, but how do I get to the USMB "Marketplace" - I can't seem to find it...Susie K Susie, You may want to post a separate thread in the marketplace if you plan on selling your legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I may be the only one that thinks this, beside the Subaru inspector, but it seems to me that what they offered to do on this incident seems pretty fair. The car is way out of standard warranty, so it seems to me Subaru really didn't have to do anything in this matter. Even though all the maintenance was done it still was way beyond the normal warranty period. What other car company would have an inspector take the time to look at a car so far out of warranty. The fact that they did this speaks pretty good in my book. I don't see how they can be made to pay for this problem even as sad as it is. If there was an extended warranty then that would be different. You take your chances when you don't purchase one. By the way, you can get a policy from your insurance company usually for a lot less than the dealer charges for one. Put yourself in their shoes, would cover your product when a problem occurs almost twice the normal time limit. Again Suzie, I think you should reconsider the CCR engine but that is just the opinion of an avid Soob owner. Whatever happened to the engine is not real common. To get to the Marketplace, just click on the arrow in the box below these posts, titled Forum Jump. The list of areas to choose from will pop up. P.S. Look how much interest this car is getting even broken. This wouldn't happen with a Ford or Chevy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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