Linda Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Hey guys (and gals)..... I just read the post from Susie K and a reply from one of you that if she was towed "wheels on ground" that the AWD is toast??!! That's how I was towed to the garage when my 96 Outback broke down 2 weeks ago. The old gal's been towed before....once....and it was on a flatbed. While I waited on AAA that evening, I was expecting a flatbed. Guy showed up in a regular (smaller) tow truck and towed me and the car approximately a mile and a half to the closest garage. Now I'm really worried.....and more confused than ever!!! Linda in Pittsburgh.......waiting for the other shoe (or part) to drop!!!! ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 You might have cooked your AWD. Is it manual or Automatic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Hey guys (and gals)..... I just read the post from Susie K and a reply from one of you that if she was towed "wheels on ground" that the AWD is toast??!! That's how I was towed to the garage when my 96 Outback broke down 2 weeks ago. The old gal's been towed before....once....and it was on a flatbed. While I waited on AAA that evening, I was expecting a flatbed. Guy showed up in a regular (smaller) tow truck and towed me and the car approximately a mile and a half to the closest garage. Now I'm really worried.....and more confused than ever!!! Linda in Pittsburgh.......waiting for the other shoe (or part) to drop!!!! ???????? If it,s a manual and was towed with all FOUR wheels on the ground, you're OK. If they lifted the front, then it's another story. If it's an auto then only way to tow is four wheels OFF the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Many of them have a setup with two wheels for each side that attach to the car wheels. This way the car wheels don't rotate. I would have the car checked if I did not recall someone using this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted February 27, 2005 Author Share Posted February 27, 2005 You might have cooked your AWD. Is it manual or Automatic? Automatic....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Seems like the "standard of care" for towing Subaru automatics is on a flatbed. You might have recourse against the towing company for damages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrand Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 http://www.subaru.com/owners/care/carcaretips/middle.jsp?pageID=towing If I owned a 4wd new gen subsaru I would carry a copy of this page to hand to tow truck drivers-just in case they sent a truck to try to tow it 2 up. Unfort my Legacy is FWD only so that is one worry I don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSisters Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If I owned a 4wd new gen subsaru I would carry a copy of this page to hand to tow truck drivers-just in case they sent a truck to try to tow it 2 up. There's more than one Subaru in P'burg. The tow driver knew it was a Subaru and how it should have been towed. He probably decided a few bucks in his pocket was better than not getting the tow. Could care less about your car. Probably figured a mile and a half wouldn't cause an immediate failure and you'd never associate towing with your potential future trouble. Sorry to hear about this and good luck to you. Let us know what develops. Has anyone ever had success collecting from tow company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale47 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If he puts the fuse in,disabling the AWD , We'll that work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If the ignition was in the ON position with or without the engine running the fuse in the FWD slot would work. I seriously doubt that a tow truck driver would do that. If anything had he realized it was a Subaru AWD he would refuse to tow it and call for a flatbed. I think I'd call the tow company now and let them know to expect to cover any damage to the AWD after the dealer inspects it. Subaru is very clear about not towing the automatics in any fashion, always flatbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale47 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Hey Linda, On the bright side,the tow company may be paying you book price for your Subaru in the near future. Every tow company out there knows how a Subaru is be towed, so they have no excuse !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Linda, you noted AAA towing company. I assume then, that you are a AAA member. Make your initial complaint to AAA and keep on THEM. Your contract is with AAA, they hire and 'approve' the towing company, who is 'supposed' to be knowledable. STAY ON AAA, send them all the information and don't back off, There is no reason you should suffer damages, and no reason for you to have to deal with the towing company. And yes, assume your AWD system is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I agree with mtsmiths, any AAA tow driver should know that, so should the dispatcher. They should have never sent anything but a flat bed, or at least a dollie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swi66 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I agree with mtsmiths, any AAA tow driver should know that, so should the dispatcher. They should have never sent anything but a flat bed, or at least a dollie. Had a Subie which was involved in an accident, was still blocking the street when the tow truck arrived, I let it be known loud and clear if it was towed with the wheels on the ground, the AWD would be ruined. Tow truck driver said the cops called him and didn't tell him it was an AWD. Cop said the car had to be moved, NOW! When I started talking about "responsibility" for further damage. The tow driver left! Cops called anotheer shop and requested a flatbed......... Have your car checked at a dealer. If they give it a good bill of health, get it in writing as you may be losing a chance for compensation a month or a year from now................ swi66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Hey guys, Linda has not gotten back to us regarding the tow dolleys. If the guy used dolleys, he did nothing wrong. Don't be so quick to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattocs Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 You might have recourse against the towing company for damages. BS! It is your responsibility as the owner of the car to know how to have it towed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 BS! It is your responsibility as the owner of the car to know how to have it towed. Excuuuuuse me? Let's just say that you loaned your beloved Subaru to a friend. Did you remember to advise them of towing requirements or insist they read the entire owner's manual before handing them the keys? Probobolly NOT! This ain't hookin' a fish, it's a job with some expected expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 BS! It is your responsibility as the owner of the car to know how to have it towed. That comment is way off. Yes, a person should be aware of the special needs of his/her car, but that isn't always the case and in a situation like this it is not the person's responsibility. Now--I TOLD the tow company to send a flatbed when my Subaru was towed, but when the good ol' boy showed up, he commented that "those Subarus have to be towed on a flatbed truck." If they don't know all about their job then they have no business towing for $$$. (Is it your responsibility to tell the auto paint guy he must add a flex additive to the paint he applies to your bumper? If you didn't tell him that your car has plastic/rubber bumpers, then is it your fault when the new paint peels and chips off when the bumper flexes? No--he should know what he is working with.) If someone works on cars they are responsible for knowing what they are doing. End of story. Anyway, I was curious, so I poked around a little. Linda--if you are still checking the site, then please read on. Here's what Subaru says about towing: Yes, you have to use a flat-bed truck. Towing a vehicle with an automatic transmission rotates the gearing through the transfer clutch. However, since the engine isn’t running, there are no fluids lubricating the transmission or carrying away the heat generated through friction within the transmission. This can result in permanent TRANSMISSION damage. And a link... http://www.subaru.com/owners/care/carcaretips/middle.jsp?pageID=towing I'm gonna ramble about some other stuff, but since you called AAA, here is what I discovered that should help you recover $$$ for possible damages and have a solid argument against this towing company. Here's a cool quote for you: Even AAA, the largest member-supported roadside assistance service in the United States, offers a towing manual for tow truck operators that has "more than 350 pages of details involving every make and model," said Larry Keller, editor at AAA of Michigan. As each year progresses, AAA sends out further towing news via service bulletins, Keller said. As a AAA service place, they have been educated on how to properly haul ALL vehicles and if they don't know then they have the AAA provided manual--no excuses there except laziness and/or carelessness. In a court you could probably prove negligence with that info. I got that info from this site: http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022110&src=News This might be of interest--2a: Attachment A - OPERATOR LICENCE CONDITIONS Section 20 Tow Truck Industry Act 1998 (1) A licence may be granted subject to such conditions as may be specified in the licence. (2) In addition to the conditions specified in a licence, a licence is subject to the following conditions: (a) the licensee must take all reasonable precautions to prevent loss of or from, or damage to, any motor vehicle that: (i) is towed by a tow truck operated under the licence, or (ii) is being held in the licensee’s holding yard, or (iii) is otherwise under the control of the licensee, From this site: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/towtrucks/licensing/operator-info-pack.doc Hey--there's a WreckMaster.com that has online certification for towing. Here's something they say: Always consult all manufacturers booklets for recommended towing or transporting procedure. From this link: http://www.wreckmaster.com/Spint2/Spint15.htm And this isn't too specific, but they have a page about towing all wheel drive vehicles: http://www.wreckmaster.com/Spint2/Spint16.htm The advice to contact AAA first is the route I would take, but I would also call the tow service if AAA does not address the situation and offer a remedy very quickly. Getting a lawyer involved would cost you money and defeat the purpose of a claim, but don't forget the tow company would lose money to a lawyer as well, so they don't really want to go there either. If you have your facts and evidence straight when you talk to them, they may be less likely to brush you off and assume you won't bother litagation. Them being AAA will probably help your argument. Let us know how things go for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Just thought I'd toss this into the shouldn't list... You must never allow your AWD to be emissions tested on a 2-wheel dynomometer. AWD vehicles are exempt from that portion of the test in the states that use them. Linda, AAA is a huge corporation with a lot of clout... I'm sure they will back you if a problem occurred as a direct result of negligence by one of their associates. The towing companies all carry liability insurance coverage and AAA has the muscle to collect on it... it's no skin off their back. Just stay with it, even if things appear ok, don't allow the complaint/case to be closed until YOU are satisfied that no damage was caused... even if it's a year down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felipe01forester Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Since yours is an automatic, the dude shouldv'e known not to tow it on 2 wheels anyway. That's how all autos are supposed to be towed, AWD or 2WD. Not only is your tranny gonna be messed up, but your drivetrain is gonna be shot, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarunation 713 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Hey guys (and gals)..... I just read the post from Susie K and a reply from one of you that if she was towed "wheels on ground" that the AWD is toast??!! That's how I was towed to the garage when my 96 Outback broke down 2 weeks ago. The old gal's been towed before....once....and it was on a flatbed. While I waited on AAA that evening, I was expecting a flatbed. Guy showed up in a regular (smaller) tow truck and towed me and the car approximately a mile and a half to the closest garage. Now I'm really worried.....and more confused than ever!!! Linda in Pittsburgh.......waiting for the other shoe (or part) to drop!!!! ???????? Linda, I think every Chicken Little replied to your post. Don't worry, the sky has not fallen. Even though having all 4 wheels off of the ground is the ideal way and putting a fuse in the AWD to disable the rear wheels is the 2nd best way, you did go only a MILE AND A HALF. Your all wheel drive system is NOT toast. There is no way for the viscous coupling to get that hot that quick unless he towed you at 80mph. Parts are not going to fall off of your car, cats and dogs won't be sleeping together, the Steelers will still loose to New England (couldn't resist :-) ) and the world will not come to an end. You dodged a bullet but learned a good lesson. I am sure next time you will insist on a flatbed. In the event you still feel uneasy drop a note to AAA and the tow truck company so you will have documentation. Good Luck, Greg btw-The Steelers are my favorite AFC team even though I grew up east of the Sesquhanna River! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 "Automatic Transmission Models All-Wheel Drive vehicles cannot be towed with any wheels on the ground. The vehicle can only be towed on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground and the transmission in park. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with front wheels off the ground or all four wheels off the ground and transmission in park." Well Subarunation, this cut-n-paste from Subaru's own site is pretty definitive. Note that is says CANNOT, not 'may not', not 'should not'. In technical language this word means what it says. It doesn't mean "do not tow over one point five miles", or, "do not tow over 80 miles per hour ... it means CAN NOT be towed. I still advise Linda to asssume they have toasted her AWD, and let them prove otherwise. Maybe she DID get lucky, but why take the chance and allow a mistake to go unresolved at HER expense. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Furthermore, there is no viscous coupling in the Auto AWD. It's a dry plate clutch, and it'll have been glazed/burned by the towing, meaning it will slip in the future the when transmission tries to send power to the rear wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarunation 713 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 "Automatic Transmission ModelsAll-Wheel Drive vehicles cannot be towed with any wheels on the ground. The vehicle can only be towed on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground and the transmission in park. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with front wheels off the ground or all four wheels off the ground and transmission in park." Well Subarunation, this cut-n-paste from Subaru's own site is pretty definitive. Note that is says CANNOT, not 'may not', not 'should not'. In technical language this word means what it says. It doesn't mean "do not tow over one point five miles", or, "do not tow over 80 miles per hour ... it means CAN NOT be towed. I still advise Linda to asssume they have toasted her AWD, and let them prove otherwise. Maybe she DID get lucky, but why take the chance and allow a mistake to go unresolved at HER expense. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you. Listen, we are talking 1.5 miles! that is only 7,920 feet! Yeah, I know it is not the best but to tell someone their AWD system is TOAST is over kill. I have a 96 wagon. Take a look at the 96 Legacy owners manual and you will see you CAN tow with the AWD being disabled if you don't exceed a certain distance or speed. Perhaps the new ones are different but look at the owners manual for a 96. Viscous coupling or clutch pack or dry disc or whatever, 1.5 miles will not kill it or glaze it or burn it up. Did you ever ride your clutch when you were in 3rd gear thinking it was 1st? I have and I could even smell it. BTW the clutch was still good when the car was sold at 205,000. Was towing it 2 wheels the best. Heck no! I don't argue that. But if our Subarus are such PANSY rump roast cars that they cant take some abuse once in a great while I better sell my 2 and buy a Daweo :-) So far my cars have taken some abuse and keep on ticking! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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