Roobaflu Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Ok, new problem... was ready for the trial run, and the clutch won't disengage, its not the cable, the pedal is going to the floor, and the lever on the trans is coming back as far as it can go. What did we do wrong??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 3, 2005 Author Share Posted March 3, 2005 I just had someone tell me that it sounds like we put the clutch plate in backwards, is this a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 What did you torque the fly wheel bolts to??? and did you off set the flywheel 120º from the "0" marks??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 wont the flywheel only go on one way because of the bolt pattern?also, the guy that helped put this together had to use the tranny to engine bolts to pull the engine and tranny together, is this ok? or is this a sign of something binding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craven Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Is it possable to put the throwout bearing in backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 wont the flywheel only go on one way because of the bolt pattern?also, the guy that helped put this together had to use the tranny to engine bolts to pull the engine and tranny together, is this ok? or is this a sign of something binding? Um... that's usually a Really Bad Thing to do. It may have done something like jam the input shaft on the transmission back or something else equally bad. Not for sure, but... you shouldn't ever do that. -=Russ=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 thats what I told him, but he argued that its a normal subaru thing. is it likely that it caused damage, or should it be ok if I take it apart ? or maybe loosen the engine to tranny bolts, go in through the starter hole, loosen (but not remove) the pressure plate bolts, then turn the engine over by hand, then tighten everything back up, would that be likely to help? Um... that's usually a Really Bad Thing to do. It may have done something like jam the input shaft on the transmission back or something else equally bad. Not for sure, but... you shouldn't ever do that. -=Russ=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I would be wary of needing to use the bolts to suck the engine and tranny together. In the engine installs I've done, it hasn't been necessary to do that. It is entirely possible that the clutch disk was not aligned properly. That could have caused mangled the disk so that it won't disengage, or something could have gone awry with the pilot bearing. I have not personally dealt with installing soob clutch disks backward, but that is a possibility as well. How does the pedal feel? If it doesn't feel like there's anything there, then it's probably a case of either an improperly installed throwout bearing or damaged linkage. If it feels normal, then it's likely either disk or pilot bearing related. Probably the best thing to do is separate the engine and tranny so you can look in there and inspect everything before anything gets damaged or broken. Like you said, it's probably something simple like getting the disk in backwards or not installing the TO bearing properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 the pedal feels normal. I agree on the taking it back apart, but the problem is I'm not capable of doing it myself, and the only person that I can get to help me swears its normal procedure to use the bolts too pull it together. If I pull it somehow, do I pull the engine or the tranny? It seems like the engine itself would be easier to pull but harder to align with the tranny on the way back in I am so SOL on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I doubt that it is the clutch disk backwards. The difference in spline length (the "offset" if you will) is near an inch... I don't htink that you could have even started the PP bolts if the disk was backwards. I have used engine/tranny bolts to pull the two together, but not as the "only" way to do it... I never forced it. Is this on your EA81 engine with EA82 tranny? I think that others have said recently that there are throwout bearing compatabulity issues. Might be wrong here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 pulling it together with the bolts is fine. if the clutch was backwards you would hear alot of grinding, as the springs would be hitting the flywheel bolts. i dont think its realy possible to bolt it together backwards, its all so close to begin with, and the bulge goes towards the springs on the pp. mess with the cable. clarify disengage... just so i know. you mean you cant put it in gear, and hold in the clutch, without moving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 pulling it together with the bolts is fine. if the clutch was backwards you would hear alot of grinding, as the springs would be hitting the flywheel bolts. i dont think its realy possible to bolt it together backwards, its all so close to begin with, and the bulge goes towards the springs on the pp. mess with the cable. clarify disengage... just so i know. you mean you cant put it in gear, and hold in the clutch, without moving? ok, it wont COMPLETELY disengage, the way it acts is like the throwout lever is not moving far enough, thats why I suspected the cable first, and proceeded to tighten it. I know however have the throwout lever strapped to the tranny bracket in the full backward position, in other words as far as it will go. Thats how I know its not the pedal or cable. if you start the car in neutral, you cant get it in gear, if you start it in gear the car will move, but if you hit the brake the car will stop but the engine wont', but it will try to move if you let go of the brake. so if you are off the clutch pedal its normal, if you are on the clutch pedal instead of disengaging altogether, it just makes the clutch slip. and no matter what you do, you can't get the tranny out of gear while its running (never seen this before myself, had clutch cables break before and hydro clutch cylinders fail, still could get the tranny out of gear, maybe because its not moving) The engine is an ea81, the tranny, TO bearing(the one off that tranny) pressure plate, clutch and flywheel are all ea82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 I pulled the tranny to engine bolts, pulled the starter to get to the pressure plate bolts, loosened two bolts opposite each other, took them almost out, but not all the way, just REALLY loose, I REMOVED the other 4 pressure plate bolts. Put the trans in 1st, put a socket on the crank, turned the engine over and the car pulled forward :[ without the pressure plate bolted down, how on earth is the clutch grabbing???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sounds like the pilot bearing might be fubared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 so if the bolts were used to force the engine and tranny together, the input shaft could be "stuck" inside the flywheel now? Sounds like the pilot bearing might be fubared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 i dont think you can hurt it pulling it together. i did some pretty c razy stuff with trannies, and long bolts when i was younger, and never broke anything. you cant even push the pilot bearing in further if you jab it with the tranny like a ramrod. sounds like a clutch cable thats too long... was that possibly the oiriginal problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 the clutch on my last Subaru did the same thing you are describing before I sold it - the cable was at it's limit to how far it would adjust (it was stretched I assumed). Since I had no more threads on the end of the cable to adjust, I put a spacer behind the adjusting screws and cut the end off the threaded part (because it was hitting a part on the engine). It worked for a very short while until the cable stretched more. If it were mine, I'd change the cable out and try that first before I yanked the motor or tranny again. Cable's are cheap and easy to replace...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 it is NOT the cable.... the lever on the trans is as far back as it can go, and I went through the starter hole and pulled the pressure plate bolts and it STILL does it... if the pressure plate is unbolted it shouldn't engage at all, regardless of pedal position or cable length or tension, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 hey i think i remember the pilot bearing was bad or was that on the other flywheel? suppose it seized? dammit! i will have to come over and take a look something doesnt sound right. last i knew of someones tranny doing this it was pressure plate related. if you get to it before i could come it wopuldnt hurt to pull the motor, jack the tranny up first, the only difficulty we had putting it together is no tranny mount! too bad with all the bad luck, i could stop over sunday after jims. i may not have to work monday so keep that open and i will see about coming over i need to download yahoo messenger so if you need to hollar send a PM or email milesfox@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 5, 2005 Author Share Posted March 5, 2005 hey i think i remember the pilot bearing was bad you gave me a flywheel with a bad pilot bearing? this sucks, the tranny swap was supposed to be done in less than a day (thats what I was told anyway), now here it is going on two weeks that my only vehicle has been off the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaflu Posted March 5, 2005 Author Share Posted March 5, 2005 ok, the tranny is out, had to pull the pressure plate and clutch with the tranny, the pilot bearing is attatched to the end of the input shaft, going to get a gear puller on it tomorrow and pop it off. Its actually good this happened, I didnt realize how thin the clutch disc was, there are a few rivets that are literally about 2mm from the surface of the disc, that could have been ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Hmmm I'll trade you the clutch in my 82 brat... it wont Engage... the clutch slips and slips but the car never moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 ok, the tranny is out, had to pull the pressure plate and clutch with the tranny, the pilot bearing is attatched to the end of the input shaft, going to get a gear puller on it tomorrow and pop it off. Its actually good this happened, I didnt realize how thin the clutch disc was, there are a few rivets that are literally about 2mm from the surface of the disc, that could have been ugly Easy method for removing pilot bearing if you don't have a small enough puller: Fill the recess behind the bearing with grease (push it through the hole that the input shaft goes into). Then find a bolt that roughly fits into the inner race, and tap it in. This pressurises the grease behind the bearing and pops it out, just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Roobaflu and I have been talking thru emails on this. Seems the pilot bearing is "stuck" on the end of the input shaft of the tranny. He had to remove all of the PP bolts in-order to drop tranny out. Pilot bearing won't fit thru splines of clutch disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craven Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 ok, the tranny is out, had to pull the pressure plate and clutch with the tranny, the pilot bearing is attatched to the end of the input shaft, going to get a gear puller on it tomorrow and pop it off. Its actually good this happened, I didnt realize how thin the clutch disc was, there are a few rivets that are literally about 2mm from the surface of the disc, that could have been uglyJust use a hammer and beat the pilot bearing off, it's junk anyway. Get a new one along with clutch and throwout bearing. And by the way change the rear engine seal while you got it apart. When you get the new pilot bearing make sure it slides on the imput shaft.Craven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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