A stethascope has suprised me

[pyromanic]

You see, I am almost totally deaf in one ear. No kidding. The other one is only so-so. What this means is that without bi-lateral hearing, I can not determine where sounds are coming from with any degree of reliability.

 

And I bring this up because I have have been treating TOD since I got the AT swapped out to the 5sp in my 85 NA GL wagon.

 

Heavy oil, light oil, in-between oil (lots of oil changes seemed good as the car had sat for five years), MMO, Valve medic. No affect. The darn ticking, or clacking pretty much disapears when the car is FULLY warmed up. Shut it of for 20 minutes, it's back.

 

I even annoyed some board members by investigating possible piston slap with lots of question here.

 

Pulled plug wires one at a time while running cold engine, it did not disapate.

 

I've been picking up tools here and there. Picked up a mechanics stethascope today. Suprise suprise.

 

The sound is DEFINATLY coming from the oil pump. It is at it's very loudest if the contact is made right where the filter meets the pump. Did this from under the car. Put it on the pan, or back on the block, less noise.

 

This scares me. Front main bearing should knock, not tick, or clack? My mechanic buddy (but not Soobs) does NOT think it is bearings. Says sounds wrong to him, and should get worse when engine hot. He better be right.

 

So I guess the logical question is, is any reason that these oil pumps (Iv'e never been into one) can make clacking or ticking sound like this?

 

Ideas? Am I screwed?

 

Oh, for what it's worth, engine runs great. Smooth, plenty of power.

 

Pyro

[JWX]

dude have you read none of the threads on the board? it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just REALLY annoying.

[Sister7]

Probably the oil pump gasket isn't sealing. Check out the repair manual for ticking: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/article.php?a=8

[Zefy]

you got bad hearing too??? i do... not to your degree... i am only like 15% gone in one ear... but hey if the phone rings and i can't see it... i will walk in the wrong direction every time...

[pyromanic]

dude have you read none of the threads on the board? it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just REALLY annoying.

 

Dude have you read none of my post whatsoever? Or are you trying to tell me that lifter noise is loudest from under the engine and comes from the bottom of the oil pump?

[pyromanic]

Probably the oil pump gasket isn't sealing. Check out the repair manual for ticking: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/article.php?a=8

 

Ok, oil pump gasket not sealing. Since I have not had one of these oil pumps apart yet, please tell exactly what makes the noise?

 

Look guys, I get that oil pump problems cause underlubricated hydrolic lifters. I KNOW what collapsed lifters sound like. And where they are. And I know that when the micky mouse gasket gets old and flat and stuff, you suck air, and the lifters don't pump up. Buy the noise is coming from the pump itself.

 

Do these pumps (the pump itself) get noisy and clack when the micky mouse gasket fails?

 

Thanks

Pyro

[pyromanic]

you got bad hearing too??? i do... not to your degree... i am only like 15% gone in one ear... but hey if the phone rings and i can't see it... i will walk in the wrong direction every time...

 

Yupper, can't find phones for crap, they can be under a coat on couch right next to me. Sucks.

 

I sure HOPE I don't have a bad bearing too. Of course I have read for hours and hours the old posts regarding lifter noise, cause thats what I thought it was. I don't recall ever reading that the pump itself gets to clacking like this. I hope it's just something I missed, and that that is what it is. I don't need no stinking bad bearings!

 

Even best case, oil pumps aint cheap enough be sticking in new ones if if really a main bearing. And probably fron main from the sounds of it.

 

Still, it's a tick, or clack, not knock.

 

Please somebody, tell me if these oil pumps can clack or not. (I already know about lifters. Mine are quiet!!!)

Pyro

[SkankinPickle]

maybe the oil passages act like an echo chamber and channel a lot of the noise straight to the pump???

 

people have said replacing the seals on the pump help alot. it is really simple in operation. before i took mine off for the first time i would think to my self, "i don't know about this, it's connected to internal parts of the engine, maybe i shouldn't...", but a fter i got it off it was like, "well that was easy". so maybe try that.

also, i remember hearing something about oil filters that have little valves in them so the oil doen't drain all the way out of the engine while the car is off.

[torxxx]

alright dude.. you've started 4 or 5 threads about the same thing. I told you a few times now to replace the seals in your oil pump and that if that didnt fix it to replace the pump. If you are going to ask questions here, START Listening to What people tell you to do.

[555Ron]

maybe the oil passages act like an echo chamber and channel a lot of the noise straight to the pump???

 

people have said replacing the seals on the pump help alot. it is really simple in operation. before i took mine off for the first time i would think to my self, "i don't know about this, it's connected to internal parts of the engine, maybe i shouldn't...", but a fter i got it off it was like, "well that was easy". so maybe try that.

also, i remember hearing something about oil filters that have little valves in them so the oil doen't drain all the way out of the engine while the car is off.

What do you need to do this? Can you work on the engine inside the car with the radiator in it still? I don't like the thought of taking my timing belt off... it is something i would take to my mechanic. Do you have to worry about the tension of the belt when you put it back together?

 

Could i do the timing belt myself? I really like working on these things but i don't trust myself to do it right and worry about everything that could go wrong and stress about it.

[Dr. RX]

The next time you are under the car, pull the oil pump and look for yourself. Without being right there with you it is next to impossible to guess exactly what is wrong, and believe me, anything said here would be a guess without being there. So do yourself a favor, get greasy, pull the pump and investigate, then tell us what you found.

[pyromanic]

alright dude.. you've started 4 or 5 threads about the same thing. I told you a few times now to replace the seals in your oil pump and that if that didnt fix it to replace the pump. If you are going to ask questions here, START Listening to What people tell you to do.

 

Torxx I see that you are getting a touch frustrated with me. In a way I don't blame you. Please try to understand that I am one of those people that take the time to fully understand an situation before taking action. When I was youger, (a long long time ago) I would rush into things. Caused me lots of grief. I have three grown children. (well sort of, they look grown anyhow) and I has been amusing watching learn to take the time to figure things out.

 

Any way, THANKS to all have shown patients with me. I have read dozens and dozens and many many hours of posts and info on oil pump and the TOD. I do not recall ever reading that the ticking would be eminating from the bottom of the engine, so when I dicovered that it came from there, it threw me. I still don't see how this could be lifter noise. With the stethasope, (or a screwdriver in my ear fro that matter, ) I can pretty much hear allt he lifters. THEY ARE QUIET!

 

I did start another thread, yes, asking about noisy oilpumps. The answer is yes, that they tick when the MM gasket is bad. Ok. That is the first time I'd heard that. Always before, bad pump, noisy lifters.

 

Get it Torxx? I was getting conflicting information. It was pixxing me off.

 

And Torxx, you are definately one of the many people here whose opinion I respect.

 

Well, enough said.

 

Dam snow.

 

Pyro

[85Sub4WD]

What do you need to do this? Can you work on the engine inside the car with the radiator in it still? I don't like the thought of taking my timing belt off... it is something i would take to my mechanic. Do you have to worry about the tension of the belt when you put it back together?

 

Could i do the timing belt myself? I really like working on these things but i don't trust myself to do it right and worry about everything that could go wrong and stress about it.

Timing belt EASY - getting to it not too bad either -

even if you screw it up, as it is a non-interference engine, you won't hurt anything (you will just say a few profane words and do it again)

you will need a variety of tools to get to it - more than I can think of off the top of my head

I already had my radiator out at the time I serviced my timing belt (so I am not sure if you can do it in the car) - the only reason you would have to pull it is to get to the bolt that holds the crankshaft pulley on

yes, it has to be tensioned, but more important is proper alignment of the cams and crank - tension (in my expierence) is relative

there is something on the service manual part of this website that details timing belt replacement.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to use a good quality belt - Gates or OEM - the belt itself is the most important aspect of the endevour

 

I agree with Torx - sounds like a pump re-seal job is in order - no serviceable bearings on pump - but if it is sucking air, I could see that causing it to make noise - may have to replace the actual pump

[MilesFox]

the oil pump is held on by 5 bolts, it is belt driven and nothing connects internally with the motor

there are 3 seals, on ebehind the pulley, one on the rotor, and the mickey mouse mounting seal

 

the rotor will have a B stamped on one side it faces the inside of the motor

 

the timing belts will have to come off, the crank pulley and plastics will have to come off to get to it, unless of course you bust off th plastic and do away with it!

 

anyway the work can be done without taking out the radiator, but you can if you chose for more room. if your car has no AC you can work on it thru the grille!