can an ea82 handle hydrogen power

[Vanislru]

There's also Nuke reactors that are really efficient and produce hydrogen as a byproduct of cooling, I love nukes we need more.

Iceland is unique in the sense that it has so much geothermal energy so easily accessed, Alaska BC and Washington too have good access. The energy consumed to produce a nation's worth of cars that run on hydrogen will cause as much harm as staying with what we have [for now]. My friend Mike is an engineer at Ballard and he's very skeptical his opinion is that if anyone benefits from hydrogen it'll be the big oil boys.

Water engine?, so far I can only find ones that use a catalyst for seperating hydrogen and the best [i've found so far] is a motorcycle that consumes 4 kilo's of aluminum per 500km of travel.

I'm not trying to be negative, I want to leave the dino juice in the ground too.

[dragonwingsubaru]

well regardless what people are im saying what the hell im gonna try it i have gotten much better info than the stuff i initially saved. the only way to make advances in stuff is to try it out regardless of what people say about it. the only chandge in plan is the wife and i decided today that we are gonna build a test system and run it on her car first since im gonna be buying her a newer truck anyways

 

the motor is on its way out anyways with smoking and light knocking on in the bottom end. its a 97 plymouth breeze that had been wrecked before i bought so it has been hard to sell because the unibody is still bent if i prove it to work on that ,then it will be moved to the soob after the nessesary engine mods are made

and yes i do value peoples opinions thats why i posted here but everyone says no so that makes me want to try it out more and if i can prove it to work then i can say 'ha i did it' and if it dont work then you can feel better that you were right

and while i dont really understand chemestry i do have a basic understanding of the things you guys are talking about on the amount energy that is required and whatnotadn i have been doing quite alot or reasearch into this i dont just go by what two sites say, if i did that i might as well buy that 20 hp increase resister from that idiot on ebay!!!

[dragonwingsubaru]

hoozie yeah thats one of the plans i have i have a cpl others as well so i can do a cross comparison on them to see what is simular and what is different and go from there

[Ross]

Go for it!

 

ONe other option is to split the water at home and somehow bottle it. Whether this will be cheap or not depends on your electricity prices, check it out.

Dont want to be negative, but without using a catalyst of some kind, your car would be a perpetual motion machine if it worked with onboard water separation.

[Vanislru]

I think if you want to do it then all the best to ya. Please post your findings.

[ballitch]

if you do get it to work you would have to get the timing somewhere around 100 degrees BTDC, hydrogen takes almost no spark to ignite it, static electricity from your shoes on carpet will ignite it, hydrogen is very unstable, now helium on the other hand, is readily available and much more stable than hydrogen, and its cheaper to buy than to make hydrogen by yourself using electricity or portable nuclear reactors or whathaveyou. just something to think about, and your exhaust would make honda low-emission vehicles look like 510 C.I. carbuerated nitromethane funny cars. thats my 2 abes.

 

 

 

 

~Josh~

[phishy75]

Good luck for sure!!!

 

I'm eager to see how things work out for you - be sure to post.

[phishy75]

There's also Nuke reactors that are really efficient and produce hydrogen as a byproduct of cooling, I love nukes we need more.

Iceland is unique in the sense that it has so much geothermal energy so easily accessed, Alaska BC and Washington too have good access. The energy consumed to produce a nation's worth of cars that run on hydrogen will cause as much harm as staying with what we have [for now]. My friend Mike is an engineer at Ballard and he's very skeptical his opinion is that if anyone benefits from hydrogen it'll be the big oil boys.

Water engine?, so far I can only find ones that use a catalyst for seperating hydrogen and the best [i've found so far] is a motorcycle that consumes 4 kilo's of aluminum per 500km of travel.

I'm not trying to be negative, I want to leave the dino juice in the ground too.

 

 

Too true!!! Three mile island (and then Chernobyl) really screwed us by making everybody think nuke reactors would destroy the world. They are by far the best source for energy we have today - they just need to be well maintained and properly designed.

[LPGsuperchargedBrumby]

there is a site i was looking at yesterday www.unitednuclear.com that sounded interesting,they are talking about a hydrogen generator that sits in your garage and fills hydride tanks in your ride also had on there that hydride filled tanks can carry more and are safer than pressurised hydrogen tanks

[LPGsuperchargedBrumby]

"hijack" while a hydrogen fuel vehical with an onboard fuel generator is sort of the holy grail for running on water i have been looking and experimenting with the vapour carb type systems as there have and are working examples and it seems to me to be more realistic that i could get that type of system to work.

"end hijack'

[85Sub4WD]

hydrogen takes almost no spark to ignite it, static electricity from your shoes on carpet will ignite it, hydrogen is very unstable, now helium on the other hand, is readily available and much more stable than hydrogen, and its cheaper to buy than to make hydrogen by yourself using electricity or portable nuclear reactors or whathaveyou.

tis true that hydrogen is VERY volitile - big problem with storing it

however, helium is a noble gas - meaning it is a chemically inert/stable compound - no combution possibility there (unless you start splitting atoms)

 

there are no devices that use helium as a power source

 

there is a site i was looking at yesterday www.unitednuclear.com that sounded interesting,they are talking about a hydrogen generator that sits in your garage and fills hydride tanks in your ride also had on there that hydride filled tanks can carry more and are safer than pressurised hydrogen tanks

that is actually the way that power cells will eventually work for them to become available to the mass market - hydrogen tankes are like little bombs because hydrogen is so volitile - hydrogen is a special compound (only one proton) - the safest way to store it is to chemically bond it to something

 

What they mean by runinng the engine running on water is you split water with two charged plates to make hydrogen to use in your car. I remember doing this in chemistry, you would hold a test tube upsidedown over it, cause its lighter it rises into it, then light it with a match. It makes a loud pop. Then when you burn this in your engine your exhuast is H20 vapour. But this isnot very energy efficient as using hydrogen in power cell for electic cars.

 

I did the same chemistry expierament!!

you have a very good point in that burning it outright is not nearly as fuel efficent as using H2 power cells - you lose a lot of energy through heat - a power cell and a large electric motor would be far more efficent

 

everyone needs to realize that any energy used to accelerate the car has to come from somewhere - the chemical potiential energy in "dino juice" is very high - not quite as high as H2, but high

 

water has to be split for it to have any energy of value to us - don't expect to be able to drive on water - you must split it into O2 and H2, (two seperate tanks for max efficentcy - but you could use one and use surrounding O2) and then the energy that will result from combining them is what will propel your car (the liquid rockets on the space shuttle work by the same reaction) - the energy used to split the two will be greater than the amount of energy produced at the street (efficentcy is not perfect) - so of course it will take a lot of electricity to produce your fuel - whether or not it is actually more environmentally friendly is determined by the kind of power plant you are hooked up to - though theoretically you should be able to pull a lot more power out of your engine because the rxn between H2 and O2 is much more volitile and efficent

 

sorry for the long schpiel

[dragonwingsubaru]

hey lpg i have no problem at all with you hyjacking the thread, from what ive seen you seem to be the only other person trying out alternative fuel sources(no offense if someone else is and i didnt know) i would actually be interested to know some of your findings if you are willing to share any. you can pm me if you like.

 

keep the info and opinions coming i am keeping a very close eye on this thread

[hooziewhatsit]

lpg, are you talking about the 'GEET' method? trying to make a plasma out of gas/water by running it through the exhaust?

 

I did a little research on that a while ago, and found that the main guy pushing it was a scammer (alledgedly) :-\

I too would be interested to know what you find out...

[Ross]

Too true!!! Three mile island (and then Chernobyl) really screwed us by making everybody think nuke reactors would destroy the world. They are by far the best source for energy we have today - they just need to be well maintained and properly designed.

 

I agree, now if only we could make a small reactor to fit in a subie......

[TheBrian]

As it stands, burning fossil fuel is the cheapest way to generate electricty in America. Accordingly, it is the most popular method.

 

A hydrogen car has zero harmful tailpipe emissions, true, but the car causes emissions from fossil-fuel burning power plants for every mile it drives.

 

Want to reduce this country's CO2 emission and fossil fuel consumption? Owning a hydrogen car won't help. Installing a windmill in your yard will help a bit. But major reduction in our CO2 emission requires political action. Higher taxes on fossil fuels would make hydro, nuke, and alternative energies more attractive and more common. It would also encourage people to drive more efficient cars.

In addition to making fossil fuels more expensive, we should make other power sources cheaper. We need a long-term solution to the nuclear waste problem.

 

Until burning coal ceases to be the cheapest method of generating electricity, an electricty-consuming, zero-emissions vehicle, whether running on rechargable batteries or hydrogen fuel cells or whatever, is not nearly as environmentally friendly as it may appear.

[TheBrian]

Regarding Iceland:

 

Is Iceland party to the Kyoto Protocol? EU emissions regulations?

 

I understand they have a huge number of diesel fishing boats per capita, hence huge emissions per capita. That and a lot of energy-hungry aluminium production. They will have to work very hard at being green to bring per capita emissions to levels like they have in more populus European countries.

 

Iceland is definately using some interesting technology. We'll see how it works out.

[Vanislru]

Regarding Iceland:

 

Is Iceland party to the Kyoto Protocol? EU emissions regulations?

 

I understand they have a huge number of diesel fishing boats per capita, hence huge emissions per capita. That and a lot of energy-hungry aluminium production. They will have to work very hard at being green to bring per capita emissions to levels like they have in more populus European countries.

 

Iceland is definately using some interesting technology. We'll see how it works out.

The vast majority of developed countries are with the US as the most glaring exception. Iceland's per capita carbon output is on par with other cold low pop. countries. The worst offender is Canada per capita.

[Ross]

Hmmm, seems odd that someone from the US is hasling a country about not conforming to the Kyoto protocol...

[TheBrian]

Don't assume that just because I live in the U.S., I agree with our current policies or our leadership.

 

No, actually, I fully understand Iceland not complying with Kyoto. They have a good reason not to. And unlike the U.S., they're taking innovative steps toward being green.

[Ross]

Don't assume that just because I live in the U.S., I agree with our current policies or our leadership.

 

Dont worry, i wasnt, i was just being a smartass.

[85Sub4WD]

TheBrian has some good points - I can't remember the actual numbers, but I found info. reguarding the real envio. impact of producing a new car, and compared it to keeping my old one for however many years - it turned out that I would have to own and drive it for some ungodly number of years (like over 50) to come anywhere close to the energy consumed.

 

That is accounting for the fact that the emissons equipment on my car is now 20 years old - however I have maintained all of it, so it is running very clean - and as it has a cat. converter, it is pretty much as clean as newer cars (you just can't plug OBDII into it)

 

frankly, I try to be green, and I will embrace alternative fuels when they arrive (my mom wants a Prius for her next car - that will be interesting)

[[HTi]Johnson]

I was thinking of making a hydrogen Fuel cell..but something with needing platinum mesh or something for the hydrogen nucleus to pass through as the electron goes through the "wire" stopped me.

But I would have used the abundance of wind here in oregon...maybe solar to break apart the water atoms but....harnessing Hydrogen seems like a task in it's self.

But, I watched on the Discovery channel. about the dangers of packing hydrogen tanks in cars...it's not that bad...because hydrogen will almost immediately bond with the oxygen in the air...if the tank was breached...yea....blah blah blah...I'll keep following this post.

[HTi]Johnson

[dragonwingsubaru]

well i guess 1 missunderstanding on why i am doing this is the emmisions. while the cleaner environment is a very nice thing, especially because of my kids this is not the reason im looking into this or any other type of alturnative fuel. if it wasnt for current gas prices i would rather own an old car with big block v8 and straight dual exhaust. but with gas prices going up and up im looking for a setup that doesnt need fossil fuels. maybe this will work and maybe it wont. the only way to truly find out is to try it or talk to a real person that has. what shouldnt work and what does work can be 2 completely different things.

[RXTurbo]

Just a couple of points to raise on this...

 

Hope you are feeding the beast 100% pure water, not the crap that comes out of the tap because it is far from 100% pure water. People readily spew forth that 'hydrogen' power is 100% clean and has zero emissions, but it doesn't. When you electrolyse tap water you not only get hydrogen gas, but also chlorine gas, fluorine gas, amongst various solids.

 

Unless you are burning the hydrogen in a completely closed state where ther system provides all the hydrogen and oxygen that is needed for combustion then you will not avoid nitrogen based oxides - these occur in the extreme temperatures of combustion where nitrogen gas (80% of air) is present with oxygen gas, these combine and form oxides of nitrogen. If you are burning the gasses produced from electrolysing tap water you will also be releasing oxides of chlorine, fluorine, sodium, calcium and carbon.

 

Have a look at the chemistry involved, not just the hype.

 

If you really want to investigate alternative fuels that actually can be produced yourself and cheaper than petrol then take a look at the increasing numbers of home distilleries. YES you can get a permit from the ATF that allows you to make denatured ethanol fuel for home use. You will need to do some leg work to get raw materials but you can get them free.

 

A system that produces fuel from the energy it gains from burning the same fuel *is* perpetual motion and *is* impossible. There needs to be additional energy input into a system from elsewhere, continuously, to keep it running.

 

I am not trying to rain on your parade here, but the more people that come to realise that the people pushing the sales of plans etc on the web are just crackpots, the better.

[CHIM]

There's no reason that making a vehicle that runs on water shoulbn't work.

 

 

My brother who lives in prinville introduced me to and old man that he said "made an engine run on water".

 

Of course me being very scepticle said " BS!".

 

Any it was a 4 hp birggs lawnmower motor, The old man set it on the ground fully assembled and hooked a jar up to the fuel line filled it with his garden hase and told me to take a drink.

 

After i confirmed that it was just water he pulled the spark plug and pored a small amout of fuel gas in it. It poped a few times and died. After doing this a few times the damg thing started!, and ran about 15 min. or so until all the water was gone.

 

So i have seen a motor run on water completly conatined without the use of a power source, Don't even begin to ask me how it works, He tryed to explain it to me but i wasn't really following him. "Talkin a bunch of science stuff" i dunno.

 

But i do remeber that the exhaust and intake where sharing what he called " a reactor" he said basically the heat produced by the exhaust is what seperated the hydogen from the water and that he had to start it with regular gas to start the heating process.

 

at the time of talking to him he had plans of applying his desighn to an old corvair he had.

 

But now that there are people showing interest is this i now have a reason to go back on check up on his project.

 

I think i am going to get video of his lawnmower motor running just to prove im not full of ************. "givin he lets me"

 

I'll post what i find out.