Whining about Outback

[envy_petter]

i agree with most of what you have to say... however, heated seats are nice. i just got my 03 outback sport. no real options... my girlfriend has a 02 jetta. i think she's got a base model with the stereo upgrade. things i like about hers that mine lacks... the dashboard light colors (green is just boring now), heated seats (although, i never used hers that much in the winter), telescope steering wheel (not just tilt), one touch up and down for both front windows (as opposed to one touch down for jsut the driver's window)

 

Subaru USED to have auto up (one touch). Then they realized that a young child could get seriously injured if they were to have their fingers in the track when it went up. They stopped that.

 

Again, I'll take the AWD over a telescoping wheel.

[Al_SemC]

Outback - AWD. Where's your 4Motion, biznatch?

Jetta - It's not offered. <sniff>

 

Outback - Cargo space. 92ft^3.

Jetta - Can I open the window? There's no oxygen in here.

 

Outback - I don't ever get stuck in the snow.

Jetta - You can drive in the snow?

 

Outback - I've got 178k on me (though I've had the head gaskets done once).

Jetta - I'm broken. Again.

 

Outback - My transmission's older than dirt. It still works.

Jetta - I've had three gearboxes! I'm a lease!

 

Outback - 165hp.

Jetta - ...you've got 50 more horsepower than me.

 

Jetta - I have a 1.8L turbocharged I4...

Outback - I have oil that isn't cooked.

 

Jetta - I'm trendy!

Outback - I'm useful.

 

Jetta - I'm German!

Outback - You're made in Mexico.

 

Jetta - I'm an Audi!

Outback - So?

 

Jetta - I get good gas milage!

Outback - I get good traction.

 

Jetta - My owner's mom thinks I'm cute.

Outback - Your owner lives in his mom's basement.

 

Jetta - I have better commercials!

Outback - Commercials? We don't need no stinkin' commercials.

 

 

 

 

I could go on for hours.

[envy_petter]

THAT is a new commercial! LMFAO!

[rizzo]

Outback - AWD. Where's your 4Motion, biznatch?

Jetta - It's not offered. <sniff>

 

Outback - Cargo space. 92ft^3.

Jetta - Can I open the window? There's no oxygen in here.

 

Outback - I don't ever get stuck in the snow.

Jetta - You can drive in the snow?

 

Outback - It's got 178k on it (though it had the head gaskets done once).

Jetta - It's broken. Again.

 

Outback - My transmission's older than dirt. It still works.

Jetta - I've had three gearboxes! It's a lease!

 

Outback - 165hp.

Jetta - ...you've got 50 more horsepower than me.

 

Jetta - I have a 1.8L turbocharged I4...

Outback - I have oil that isn't cooked.

 

Jetta - I'm trendy!

Outback - I'm useful.

 

Jetta - I'm German!

Outback - You're made in Mexico.

 

Jetta - I'm an Audi!

Outback - So?

 

Jetta - I get good gas milage!

Outback - I get good traction.

 

Jetta - My owner's mom thinks I'm cute.

Outback - Your owner lives in his mom's basement.

 

Jetta - I have better commercials!

Outback - Commercials? We don't need no stickin' commercials.

 

actually audi's are VW's. not the other way around... gas mileage is about the same in my outback sport and my girlfriend's jetta. there's turbo-charged subarus and outbacks with the H6. one thing about space in the jetta (aside from the back seat)... the trunk is pretty big for a small car. and they do pretty well in the snow... not as well as AWD though. <img>

 

i am perplexed as to why VW doesn't offer 4motion in all their cars... especially the wagons. and my biggest complaint... ALL THEIR CARS WITH 4MOTION ARE AUTOMATICS!!! <img> i was also looking at a passat wagon with a VR6 and 4motion... but it was an automatic...

[scoobyclimbs]

I can"t understand the comparison yet a jetta (road car) vs outback (offroad car) its like apples and oranges.....!

 

Maybe a jetta vs a legacy gt might be more appropriate.

 

I"m a mechanic and jetta"s are junk! you see lots of older gen outbacks but where are the jetta"s (scrapyard!)

[Al_SemC]

actually audi's are VW's. not the other way around...

Audis are VW's, VW's are Audi's. Hell, the Jetta is an A3 now, more or less, isn't it?

 

gas mileage is about the same in my outback sport and my girlfriend's jetta.

Hmm. Okay. I would conjecture that when most non-Subaru people think "Outback," they think of the Legacy Outback, specifically the OBW.

 

there's turbo-charged subarus and outbacks with the H6.

Yeah, that's true. You can even get a turbocharged Outback now, IIRC. Same as the Legacy with the 2.5L Turbo. And there's the H6 as well. Eat that, Jetta.

 

one thing about space in the jetta (aside from the back seat)... the trunk is pretty big for a small car.

You can put a whole Jetta in the back of an OBW...

 

and they do pretty well in the snow... not as well as AWD though. <img>

I know.

 

i am perplexed as to why VW doesn't offer 4motion in all their cars... especially the wagons. and my biggest complaint... ALL THEIR CARS WITH 4MOTION ARE AUTOMATICS!!! <img> i was also looking at a passat wagon with a VR6 and 4motion... but it was an automatic...

0wnz3d.

[envy_petter]

I can"t understand the comparison yet a jetta (road car) vs outback (offroad car) its like apples and oranges.....!

 

Maybe a jetta vs a legacy gt might be more appropriate.

 

I"m a mechanic and jetta"s are junk! you see lots of older gen outbacks but where are the jetta"s (scrapyard!)

 

Wouldn't be any different with a Legacy. Same engine as an Outback. I would bet that my Legacy Special Edition Sedan (all wheel drive, not just front drive sled) cost not much more (if any) than a comparably equipped Jetta. I paid $18,350 for my Legacy brand new in June '03. That included a factory security system. It is Automatic, power windows, locks, mirrors, power sunroof, cruise, tilt, CD, tilt (no telescoping), 4 CHANNEL ABS (research it, best you can use), 165 HP (normally aspirated), 205-55-16 inch H rated performance tires, alluminum wheels, nice cargo space., etc.

 

Can anyone counter that for the price?

[rizzo]

Audis are VW's, VW's are Audi's. Hell, the Jetta is an A3 now, more or less, isn't it?

 

good point... but without VW, audi probably would've gone under... you can't really compare the VW and the audi lines... jetta is smaller than A4, passat is bigger than A4. and then there's the phaeton. that thing is sick...

 

Hmm. Okay. I would conjecture that when most non-Subaru people think "Outback," they think of the Legacy Outback, specifically the OBW.

 

maybe people should think differently... you were comparing a large wagon with a small sedan... so compare all VW's to all subarus... or at least a comparable subaru (such as the impreza line)

 

Yeah, that's true. You can even get a turbocharged Outback now, IIRC. Same as the Legacy with the 2.5L Turbo. And there's the H6 as well. Eat that, Jetta.

 

i'm not sure if there's a turbo outback, but there's definitely a turbo legacy... and there's the WRX (more comparable to the jetta than the legacy)... and H6 rocks...

 

You can put a whole Jetta in the back of an OBW...

 

that's going a bit overboard... but yeah... jetta is a lot smaller than the legacy outback... but again... you're comparing a small sedan with a large wagon.

 

either way... subaru is better...

[rizzo]

Wouldn't be any different with a Legacy. Same engine as an Outback. I would bet that my Legacy Special Edition Sedan (all wheel drive, not just front drive sled) cost not much more (if any) than a comparably equipped Jetta. I paid $18,350 for my Legacy brand new in June '03. That included a factory security system. It is Automatic, power windows, locks, mirrors, power sunroof, cruise, tilt, CD, tilt (no telescoping), 4 CHANNEL ABS (research it, best you can use), 165 HP (normally aspirated), 205-55-16 inch H rated performance tires, alluminum wheels, nice cargo space., etc.

 

Can anyone counter that for the price?

 

nope... when you buy a jetta, you buy a german car that was made elsewhere... it's like buying polo vs. LL Bean. quality is the same (although i think LL Bean is better), but the price is skewed. you buy a brand name, nothing more... and lots of gadgets on the jetta that subaru doesn't have...

[envy_petter]

nope... when you buy a jetta, you buy a german car that was made elsewhere... it's like buying polo vs. LL Bean. quality is the same (although i think LL Bean is better), but the price is skewed. you buy a brand name, nothing more... and lots of gadgets on the jetta that subaru doesn't have...

 

So I should buy the Jetta because it is like a Swiss Army Knife and has all these "gadgets." Guess you'll need all those "gadgets" when you are stranded in the snow. THAT'S the gadget it doesn't have.

[sregor13]

I think the OBW Wagon is the worst car band for the buck Subaru has ever offered to date. You are justified in questioning if it is worth the money. In my opinion it is not.

 

Does someone here think that Subaru's are made in Japan? VW's are German Engineered. Just like Subaru's are Japanese engineered. I dont know about VW, but Subaru's are assembled in Mexico and North America.

 

Also saw someone say something about German's with regard to Electronics. They make some of the best electronics available. I dont know about there automotive. But they certainly make some of the worlds greatest electronics.

 

No reason to bash the Jetta. Why dont we compare the 05 Passat Wagon to the 05 Outback Wagon? I know the original post was referring to comparing a 01 OBW to an 01 Jetta but I would like to see a blow by blow comparision of the Passat Wagon verses the 05 OBW. I really like both, I think this 05 has ended my 6 year hatred for Outback Wagons. It finally is looking a little more like the Suabru's I fell in love with. How does it match up spec wise.

[rizzo]

I think the OBW Wagon is the worst car band for the buck Subaru has ever offered to date. You are justified in questioning if it is worth the money. In my opinion it is not.

 

the new outbacks offer quite a bit more than the older ones did. i say they're worth it. they also have better reliability than VW's.

 

Does someone here think that Subaru's are made in Japan? VW's are German Engineered. Just like Subaru's are Japanese engineered. I dont know about VW, but Subaru's are assembled in Mexico and North America.

 

just because the car is german engineered doesn't mean it's better. i don't know why this rumor still holds... in fact, according to consumer reports (which some people here dislike), most of the german cars aren't all that reliable anymore.

 

Also saw someone say something about German's with regard to Electronics. They make some of the best electronics available. I dont know about there automotive. But they certainly make some of the worlds greatest electronics.

 

VW has a history of electrical problems that has yet to be taken care of. the engines and all that stuff is great, but the electrical systems are unreliable. also, german cars are more expensive to repair than japanese cars. that coupled with the lack of reliability makes them less bang for the buck if you ask me...

 

No reason to bash the Jetta. Why dont we compare the 05 Passat Wagon to the 05 Outback Wagon? I know the original post was referring to comparing a 01 OBW to an 01 Jetta but I would like to see a blow by blow comparision of the Passat Wagon verses the 05 OBW. I really like both, I think this 05 has ended my 6 year hatred for Outback Wagons. It finally is looking a little more like the Suabru's I fell in love with. How does it match up spec wise.

 

the jetta's a great car. it's got lots of features i wish i had in my outback sport. the OBW should not have been compared to it, i agree. but even if you compare the impreza to it or the OBS, the subaru wins in the long run. but again, you can't get a passat wagon with 4motion and a stick. the only AWD VW's are AT. VW is turning into a family car as opposed to a car-lover's car. what's the point? why not offer a stick in everything? why is there no 4motion offered in the jetta?

[Outbackman]

So it looks like the concensis is that even though the Jetta has a few nicer creature comforts, it is worth while to put up with the minor annoyances of the Roo to have 4 wheel drive in a reliable practicle vehicle.

 

Thanks for all the opinions. I think I'll go for a top down, after dinner ride in my Miata.

 

Walt

[brus brother]

Would've thought you'd bought a Kia by now.

So it looks like the concensis is that even though the Jetta has a few nicer creature comforts, it is worth while to put up with the minor annoyances of the Roo to have 4 wheel drive in a reliable practicle vehicle.

 

Thanks for all the opinions. I think I'll go for a top down, after dinner ride in my Miata.

 

Walt

[Scottbaru]

My Dad is looking to replace his aging Lexus, maybe something awd. He took a look at my Subaru, nice car, but I can't recommend one for him. A Passat tdi wagon is about the same price as an OBW, better comparison, or a Passat wagon with 4motion. Why no stick on the 4motion? I had a couple VW Quantum synchros, same engine (detuned) and drivetrain as the quattro. It's not good to compete with your own products. Fortunatly for Audi, the synchro option was very expensive, and the Quantum was a much lesser vehicle. These days you can't tell the VW from the Audi.

[rizzo]

My Dad is looking to replace his aging Lexus, maybe something awd. He took a look at my Subaru, nice car, but I can't recommend one for him. A Passat tdi wagon is about the same price as an OBW, better comparison, or a Passat wagon with 4motion. Why no stick on the 4motion? I had a couple VW Quantum synchros, same engine (detuned) and drivetrain as the quattro. It's not good to compete with your own products. Fortunatly for Audi, the synchro option was very expensive, and the Quantum was a much lesser vehicle. These days you can't tell the VW from the Audi.

 

so basically you're saying that in order to get a stick with AWD in VW/audi, you have to go audi? that's a rip. i would personally, never buy an audi for the sole fact that they're way too expensive, they're way too expensive to repair, and they're just not as economical as a VW or subaru. and you still fail to address the history of electrical problems in the recent VW/audis.

 

a passat wagon is comparable to the outback... why did they not put the stick in it? in order to get a stick with a wagon with AWD, you gotta get an audi for about $20k more. what's the point?

 

personally, i'd like to see a passat tdi 4motion wagon with a stick... that's something i'd buy (even the jetta wagon with all that... but they don't offer 4motion in the jetta).

 

so you never said why you can't recommend a subaru to your father...

[Scottbaru]

so you never said why you can't recommend a subaru to your father...

The headgasket issue. About 15 years ago I was in annual flight training in Dallas. I decided to buy a rust-free Subaru, drive it back to Michigan, and sell it. I looked at dozens, and most seemed to have bad or new engines. I thought that was ominous, but I found one and made a few bucks on it. I'd not come across a group of cars with so many bad engines until recently when I searched for a Forester. I've purchased quite a few used cars in the intervening years, done a lot of searching over the internet. I like everything about Subarus except the 2.5 engine. I know a guy with an '03, the headgasket is leaking, SOA gives him stopleak so it'll make it through the warranty period. That's sad. I'll have to see a few years of better performance before I'll consider a 2.5.

[envy_petter]

The headgasket issue. About 15 years ago I was in annual flight training in Dallas. I decided to buy a rust-free Subaru, drive it back to Michigan, and sell it. I looked at dozens, and most seemed to have bad or new engines. I thought that was ominous, but I found one and made a few bucks on it. I'd not come across a group of cars with so many bad engines until recently when I searched for a Forester. I've purchased quite a few used cars in the intervening years, done a lot of searching over the internet. I like everything about Subarus except the 2.5 engine. I know a guy with an '03, the headgasket is leaking, SOA gives him stopleak so it'll make it through the warranty period. That's sad. I'll have to see a few years of better performance before I'll consider a 2.5.

 

My '03 headgasket leaked also. They gave me the "stop-leak", however, it didn't live up to its name. Had to have my left head gasket replaced at 27K. Called Subaru to complain and get the extended warranty for the headgaskets (like they did from '99 to '02), but Subaru said it is a different part. Same problem+different part=no extension.

[Equalizer]

Its good to see a lot of Subi guys and gals who like Subarus, but aren't investing in them the attributes of Diety, and worshipping them. It just seems like human nature for people to get all bent out of shape when someone points out a fault in their little idols, no matter what it is. Here, at this forum is where I see some genuine honesty when it comes to "genuine Subaru parts."

 

That said,

I've owned 3 Subarus. My previous OB also of the 2.5 vintage had a blown head gasket. One thing that I've always liked about Subaru, was that when a defect would crop up in a model, they'd try to correct it in short order and make the following years w/out that defect. Chrysler did NOT, so I've realized that they make some of their's if not all of their vehicles have engineered obselesence and don't care about anything but the bottom line. Well, I don't care to do business w/them. Subaru, in spite of reports of changing gaskets over the past few years, is also guilty of this practice. I like many things about Subarus, and overall like the company, but what I'm hearing is like politicians. Which is the lesser of the evils? If they're both evil, what does it matter? In my opinion, they don't want my business. The OB that I have will be the last if the head gasket blows. You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." I hope that the company is watching this thread like "Big Brother."

 

As much as I've bragged on Subarus over the years, I aught to get a commision, and I have a right to bash them where the company needs bashing. HEY SUBARU, you aught to be ashamed of yourselves!

[sregor13]

So it looks like the concensis is that even though the Jetta has a few nicer creature comforts, it is worth while to put up with the minor annoyances of the Roo to have 4 wheel drive in a reliable practicle vehicle.

 

Thanks for all the opinions. I think I'll go for a top down, after dinner ride in my Miata.

 

Walt

 

 

Funny you should say that becasue I got my 96 Subaru impreza Outback becasue the previous owner just wanted a Miata. 90% of the reason he got rid of the Impreza is becasue the sits were so uncomfortable. I would agree the Impreza is nice but I think I would enjoy it more if it had the Seats from my old 86 Golf GTI. Which, by the way got, around great in the snow and to this date has had no electrical problems. Cant say the same for my 87 GL Wagon and my 90 Loyale.

[rizzo]

Funny you should say that becasue I got my 96 Subaru impreza Outback becasue the previous owner just wanted a Miata. 90% of the reason he got rid of the Impreza is becasue the sits were so uncomfortable. I would agree the Impreza is nice but I think I would enjoy it more if it had the Seats from my old 86 Golf GTI. Which, by the way got, around great in the snow and to this date has had no electrical problems. Cant say the same for my 87 GL Wagon and my 90 Loyale.

 

strange... i find the seats in my 03 impreza outback to be very comfortable... much more comfortable than my old 89 camry wagon and a little more comfortable than my girlfriend's 02 jetta (hers are a bit too firm in my opinion).

[85Sub4WD]

Not sure about the original post about the sunroof. To my knowledge, Subaru has NEVER made a sunroof that only tilted. I think that was an aftermarket addition. MY roof in my car is a tilt/slide (although I have to use 2 buttons, the HORROR!).

 

Lastly, there is nothing a Jetta has that could overcome the AWD in the Outback.

well put - the subarus pre-85 and XT came with a "Pop-up" sunroof - it only tilted - a good friend of mine had one - from the factory - soob convertable coups were custom (like in 83/84)

Does someone here think that Subaru's are made in Japan? VW's are German Engineered. Just like Subaru's are Japanese engineered. I dont know about VW, but Subaru's are assembled in Mexico and North America.

the high-end Imprezas ARE made in Japan

Legacys are US/Canada

I do not know of any Subaru plants in Mexico, and it is part of North America

Also saw someone say something about German's with regard to Electronics. They make some of the best electronics available. I dont know about there automotive. But they certainly make some of the worlds greatest electronics.

their automotive electronics are CRAPPY - HAVE YOU EVER WORKED ON A GERMAN CAR????????? - Germany was state-of-the-art 20+ years ago, mainly because of the MACHINING work done on things like Hi-Fi equipment - but I have not seen ANYTHING manufactured since then that is particularly noteworthy or exceptional

 

and the Japanese don't know how to make electronics?

Its good to see a lot of Subi guys and gals who like Subarus, but aren't investing in them the attributes of Diety, and worshipping them. It just seems like human nature for people to get all bent out of shape when someone points out a fault in their little idols, no matter what it is. Here, at this forum is where I see some genuine honesty when it comes to "genuine Subaru parts."

My family has owned the same Subaru for 20 years - we have beaten the crap out of it - in that time we have gone through at least four other cars, due to some form of catastrophic failure - I don't idolize my car, but I find that it fulfills my needs amply, and 20 years AFTER it was manufactured - I do not see much purposeful nor sophisticated criticism in this thread - mainly what I see is disgruntled people making a pointless arguement as to "my car's better than yours" - most of which is baseless scientifically, and otherwise - the thousands who have traveled well over 200k in these cars are not being represented

 

I have my expierence, and many others who I come in contact with, most of whom have a minimum of thirty years of expierence under the hood:

 

Subarus are easier to work on, cheaper to maintain, and more reliable than their counterpart German cars - period. ANY statistics will back that up. Consumer Reports or not.

 

German cars have more luxuries and a more popular appeal because they are expensive - German engineering was great 20+ years ago, but since then, it has been unremarkable

[sregor13]

and you still fail to address the history of electrical problems in the recent VW/audis.

 

What electrical problem are people referring to?

[brus brother]

Sailing a kite throught the tilting sunroof with the key attached to catch the lightning and energize the windshield wiper motor during a North American thunderstorm while sitting in uncomfortable seats all the while confident in the AWD system but envious of the Germans' Atilla the Hun ability to cross the Alps atop elephants without AWD?

What electrical problem are people referring to?

[envy_petter]

To my knowledge, ALL Imprezas are made in Japan. Look at the VIN numbers. When I sold Subies, if the VIN started with a "J" it was made in Japan. I am not aware that any of them are being built here. They are still on the same platform, which was originally built in Japan.

 

NOW: Should they make the Impreza bigger and use the OLD Legacy platform ('95 to '04), they COULD produce them here, since the Legacy is made in Lafayette, IN. Never heard of a plant in Canada either, doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.