kman Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Just got the bad news from the shop, and I need to make some tough decisions. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. It's a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback station wagon. It was running fine except when you went up steep hills, in which case it would after a while over heat. You can drive it around town all the time without problems, but go on a mountain drive and it gets risky. The shop just told me that the Radiator isn't flowing very well (65 degree temperature differential between the top and bottom) and that I have a seeping head gasket (air bubbles in the expansion tank and it failed a hydrocarbon test done with a very sensitive smog machine.) Total repairs are around $2000! Now this is not a cheap shop, but they are very good. My questions to all of you: 1) Should I just get rid of this thing? Do some band aid repair on it (e.g. fix the radiator) and sell it as is? (Of course, I would inform the buyer as to the head gasket seepage). 2) Can I get this work done way cheaper? The head gasket repairs were quoted at total of $1275 alone which included machining. A new radiator is around $450. The mechanic said to leave a liberal $300 for misc. (new knock sensor, plugs and wires, etc). So I'm looking at around $2000. I live in the SF Bay Area. 3) How much would you say this car is worth? It's in pretty good shape, that paint is a little funky in places but no dings and a nice interior. It has about 135,000 miles. The only other known (but stable) problem is with the rear differential-- it whines a bit on decel above 35mph but has not gotten worse for over 20,000 miles. Thanks a million for your help, this is not easy stuff to figure... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I would say it will depend on how long you would like to keep the car. If you want to keep it longer than a couple more years then it may be worth the cost. If you don't want to keep it then you could reduce the price of the car by around $1,500 dollars for the new owner to make repairs. If you do keep it, hopefully you will not have any more real trouble for some time though the rear end may be talking to you. If you can afford a newer vehicle it may be time to trade up. It is hard to say what the value of your car would be in your area. I would search the want ads and see how prices are going there and then decide a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slo5oh Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 You should be able to get a head gasket done for less than that. There should be NO MACHINE WORK done on a head gasket repair. If they have to "machine the head" that means they are shaving the bottom surface and it will increase your compression on that side causing you other problems down the road. Call around, there are bound to be some honest mechanics around that will give you a price up front, otherwise pick up a diablo dealer and look through the ads. There are a couple places that sell low mileage japanese engines very inexpensive. I had a friend several years back that put one of these engines in his suzuki swift for something like $180... I swear the name of the company was something like shinwa motors or some japanese name like that... google found nothing on shinwa (maybe spelled wrong?) If I were you I'd start a new thread and title it something like "looking for a good inexpensive mechanic in the (east?, west?, n?, s?) bay area. Just got the bad news from the shop, and I need to make some tough decisions. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. It's a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback station wagon. It was running fine except when you went up steep hills, in which case it would after a while over heat. You can drive it around town all the time without problems, but go on a mountain drive and it gets risky. The shop just told me that the Radiator isn't flowing very well (65 degree temperature differential between the top and bottom) and that I have a seeping head gasket (air bubbles in the expansion tank and it failed a hydrocarbon test done with a very sensitive smog machine.) Total repairs are around $2000! Now this is not a cheap shop, but they are very good. My questions to all of you: 1) Should I just get rid of this thing? Do some band aid repair on it (e.g. fix the radiator) and sell it as is? (Of course, I would inform the buyer as to the head gasket seepage). 2) Can I get this work done way cheaper? The head gasket repairs were quoted at total of $1275 alone which included machining. A new radiator is around $450. The mechanic said to leave a liberal $300 for misc. (new knock sensor, plugs and wires, etc). So I'm looking at around $2000. I live in the SF Bay Area. 3) How much would you say this car is worth? It's in pretty good shape, that paint is a little funky in places but no dings and a nice interior. It has about 135,000 miles. The only other known (but stable) problem is with the rear differential-- it whines a bit on decel above 35mph but has not gotten worse for over 20,000 miles. Thanks a million for your help, this is not easy stuff to figure... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Well, I would not say that you should never machine a head, but the only reason for it would be that the head is warped. How badly was it overheating, and for how long? Oh, and I'm a Subaru mechanic in the (far) East Bay. . . I'm a lot cheraper than a shop, and love Subarus in particular. Head gasket problems on this vintage of the 2.5L engine are more common than on other Subaru engines, but that is easy to do. Most Subaru engines are so reliable that the couple of % of owners that have head problems really shows up, in contrast. Send me a PM if you want me to take a look at it and see what I can do. (I would test for warpage before talking about machining the heads for example. New gaskets may do the trick by themselves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 some people have swapped 1995 EJ22s in place of failed EJ25s. I read from Emily at CCR that the 1995 EJ22 has the same wiring harness as (at least) the older 2.5s, such as yours. A good used EJ22 will cost you much less than the EJ25 repairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 thanks a lot everyone! The car never overheated too much or for too long. I've been very careful about that, monitoring the temp gauge carefully and stopping if it even goes past half way. A friend of mine (and a very good mechanic) told me that often times such a small leak in the head gasket can be fixed by a kind of liquid sealent you run through the cooling system which patches the leaky gaskets. I've heard this can patch seeping head gaskets (and sometimes even blown head gaskets) and can last reliably for a number of years. Any thoughts on this? I'd love to believe it's true... Thanks again, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 There is a sealent that Subaru is using to stop HG leaks. I'm not sure what this is but a dealer may be able to tell you, or possibly someone here knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 There is a sealent that Subaru is using to stop HG leaks. I'm not sure what this is but a dealer may be able to tell you, or possibly someone here knows. The sealant is for phase II 2.5's that have external head gasket seepage. It won't help a phase I with internal head gasket issues. (A '96 is a Phase I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 A couple of mechanics I've talked to seem to think that this sealent will work on my engine as they believe it does on any number of fixes. They recommended me this solution independently of Subaru's sealent recommendation for Phase II engines (I don't beleive either knew about that). Does any one have any experience with sealents in this situation? Any thoughts on this method of fixing head gaskets? Remember that my gasket leak is quite small-- you really have to push the car to see it and the car will not overheat unless you try to drive over mountains for more than 40 minutes or so. THanks, kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 A couple of mechanics I've talked to seem to think that this sealent will work on my engine as they believe it does on any number of fixes. They recommended me this solution independently of Subaru's sealent recommendation for Phase II engines (I don't beleive either knew about that). Does any one have any experience with sealents in this situation? Any thoughts on this method of fixing head gaskets? Remember that my gasket leak is quite small-- you really have to push the car to see it and the car will not overheat unless you try to drive over mountains for more than 40 minutes or so. THanks, kevin With a blown head gasket, the exhaust gas enter the cooling system. Even if it's a small opening. Sealant in the coolant system is of no use in such a case. Such a sealant is usefull only if it's the coolant that's seeping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slo5oh Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 So you're not losing any coolant? (unless it overheats of course?) I would pick up a bottle of redline water wetter and dump it in your radiator. Should cost you about $6 at any good autoparts store. That stuff dropped my mustang operating temp about 10 degrees all the time, and on a car that used to overheat from time to time it stays rock solid at 180* even when caught in traffic in 110* heat. 180* is the exact operating temp of the t-stat. A couple of mechanics I've talked to seem to think that this sealent will work on my engine as they believe it does on any number of fixes. They recommended me this solution independently of Subaru's sealent recommendation for Phase II engines (I don't beleive either knew about that). Does any one have any experience with sealents in this situation? Any thoughts on this method of fixing head gaskets? Remember that my gasket leak is quite small-- you really have to push the car to see it and the car will not overheat unless you try to drive over mountains for more than 40 minutes or so. THanks, kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 No like you said I don't lose coolant unless it overheats and overflows the expansion tank. Are you positive that the sealent is not a viable solution for my problem. I would appreciate some more opinions on this. Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 when they produced the bubbles, did they just pressurize the cooling system or did they do a leakdown test or something else? I'm wondering what else we could learn about the problem... do you have more info from your mechanic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html Some links and a summary of the differences between the Phase 1 and Phase 2 HG issues. Everything I have read on the issue, and specific advice from a SOA rep. suggests that the "stop-leak" stuff won't help you, sorry. Internal leak vs. external weeping coolant. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
732002 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 I had the same problem with my 96 OBW (oil in the coolant) I had every thing fixed while the engine was out. Seals,valve guides,oil pump, water pump. If you plan on keeping the car a long time fix it all, if not now maybe a good time to dump it. In 5+ years I will know if I did the wise thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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