zyewdall Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 You can mess with timing on diesels, just a little more work than on petrol engines. Actually, I think it's easier. You do it while the engine isn't even running, with a dial indicator in the back of the injection pump. As far as I can tell, none of the nissan diesels had turbos back then. The VW diesels had turbos all the way back in the early 80's, but they were very rare in the US. Apparently lots of 1.6TD and 1.9TD VW engines in Canada and europe. The turbo engines are designed a little different than the normal diesels, so it's not as simple as just adding the turbo......oil cooled pistons, oil lines to the turbo and to an oil cooler, different metalurgy on the head, if you want it to still be durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 man, this got my hopes up. My plan, after I finish EJ22ing my wagon, is to sell my Brat and use that money to fund a biodiesel swap into my wagon (and then sell the EJ22 swap to someone).. My wagon is lifted, so I am optimistic about clearance issues but I need to measure the engine bay before I fill it with EJ22ey goodness, so I have some idea what will fit in there. How much modification was needed to bolt that Subaru flywheel to the VW engine? I see no reason why an adapter plate could not be made for a VW-subaru application, in the same fashion that the EJ/EA plate is made... I would kill for a turbodiesel in front of my RX transmission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operose Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 man, this got my hopes up. My plan, after I finish EJ22ing my wagon, is to sell my Brat and use that money to fund a biodiesel swap into my wagon (and then sell the EJ22 swap to someone).. My wagon is lifted, so I am optimistic about clearance issues but I need to measure the engine bay before I fill it with EJ22ey goodness, so I have some idea what will fit in there. How much modification was needed to bolt that Subaru flywheel to the VW engine? I see no reason why an adapter plate could not be made for a VW-subaru application, in the same fashion that the EJ/EA plate is made... I would kill for a turbodiesel in front of my RX transmission this is more or less my plan as well, without the ej22 swap, and seeing as how I don't currently have a wagon...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I was under the impression that newer diesels have bypassed the use of glowplugs for cold starts by having the ECM retard timing and inject fuel at a later time, as well as compressing the air more which will cause more heat.... please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm trying to learn more about diesel engines Actually, the Cummins 6BTA engine (the one in the Dodge trucks), which is the single most prolific engine in the world, never had glow plugs. Even when they were purely a mechanically-injected engine. The 6BTAs in the busses at my work employ an add-on timing control that messes with the timing at cold startup to reduce smoke. Some applications (like the Dodge trucks) have intake air heaters which come on when it gets cold outside. And yes, you can mess with the timing on diesels. A slight advance will generally yield more power and efficiency but puts more stress on the engine and tends to reduce longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operose Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Actually, the Cummins 6BTA engine (the one in the Dodge trucks), which is the single most prolific engine in the world, never had glow plugs. Even when they were purely a mechanically-injected engine. The 6BTAs in the busses at my work employ an add-on timing control that messes with the timing at cold startup to reduce smoke. Some applications (like the Dodge trucks) have intake air heaters which come on when it gets cold outside. And yes, you can mess with the timing on diesels. A slight advance will generally yield more power and efficiency but puts more stress on the engine and tends to reduce longevity. cool thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 My bud in auto class had a early (like 83...85?) TDI jetta... well... it was just a Diesel Turbo at the time it was made. At 250k he hadn't done anything at all to it other then change the oil. We called him Mr.Turtle due to his shiney head and thick glasses, but his car was pimp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I may be wrong, but wasn't there mention of a subaru diesel under development on the page about the Quattro san Hatch It was something about the college/university that developed the quattro san engine also was working a subaru diesel They were also devleoping the ea81 Dual cam, in which the ej series spawned from Gannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 OMG!!! That EA81 is SICK! When and where was this done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Here's what I had figured out for attaching the VW engine to the subaru tranny. I've got a pretty good thread going over at one of the VW diesel forums too, and there's some pretty phyched people there too... The old VW engines (1.6 NA, and turbo) use in inside out clutch design -- the pressure plate bolts to the crankshaft, then a donut ring flywheel bolts to the outside of it after you put the driven disc in. The release "fork" is actually a pin that pokes out of a hollow center in the transmission input shaft. Bizzarre... What I had figured out was to disassemble the VW pressure plate by taking the actual friction surface off. This pressure plate frame then bolts to the subaru flywheel (via drilled tapped holes), and to the VW crankshaft. Then you can use the whole subaru clutch, starter, etc. The trick is to make the adaptor between the VW engine, and the subaru bell housing. If I had a drawing of exact layout of the subaru engine, I could design the adaptor, because I have drawings of the VW engine available. It would basically be a flat sheet of aluminum, about an inch thick, that could be made with a precision drill press once you had the design figured out. The thickness of this plate would control the positioning of the flywheel to make sure it was in the same place longituninally, so the clutch would work. The subaru clutch is actually a little bigger diameter than the VW clutch, so it should take the stress fine. The subaru starter is apparently a smaller version of the cummins and toyota diesel starter, so it'd probably be strong enough (I've moved non-running cars around with the starter...) As I understand it, the 1.9L VW diesels (which came in a IDI turbo version in Canada and Europe, but I think only the TDI version made it over to the US starting in 1997) have the normal clutch setup, so I'm not sure if the same practice would work for those. An easier setup, if you were doing a batch of them might be to have the subaru flywheel remachined with a slighly larger crankshaft centering hole, and with 6 bolts instead of 8 to attach it to the crankshaft, and attach it directly. It would save about an inch or so of length. One thing that would be good to figure out before embarking on designing a adaptor kit, would be what diesel engine to use, and what tranny to make it connect to. For me, the GL tranny is the obvious one, since they had dual range 4WD, which I like much better than the AWD or single range 4WD ones. Personal preference. The diesel engine choice isn't as clear. From what I understand, some of the nissan engines rotate the wrong way, so that's out (someone told me they can be dropped in the old nissan pickups as a direct bolt up, but you have to flip the rear axle around to make them go foward... ). And the Nissan diesels were never turbod for the old ones. I think the clear choice is the VW diesel. The VW diesels rotate the same way as he EA82's (and I assume the other subaru engines). They are the most common diesels in the US (maybe aside from the Mercedes diesels, but those weigh about 500lbs and I don't think they'd come close to fitting in a subaru. The 6 cylinder in line turbo diesel is bigger than alot of V-8 engines.). As has been previously discussed, the 1.6NA engine is pretty slow... http://www.rocky-road.com/diesel.html This site has specs for the various VW diesel engines. In my experience, it is hard to find the 1.6 turbos here. And 1.9TDI's are expensive (plus they have a complicated wiring harness because of the electronic control). The 1.9TDI is also 180 ft lbs of torque, which might break a GL transmission. Or at least spin all four wheels! I think that a 1.6 IDI turbo is probably the best match, so the question is just where to get these easily.... Then of course, there's making engine mounts (easy, some welded angle iron to go to the existing mounts), exhaust system (need to find a source of better headers for the VW engine -- their stock design leaves a little to be desired...), power steering pump (or turn the subaru into a non-power steering car), and all the miscellaneous little things. Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to get all the design parameters out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operose Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 for power steering I'm going to try to use the cybrid pump and rack from my parts xt6.... should be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23639 This is the quattro san thread, the first paragraph has mentions of the ea81 diesel and the ea81 dohc which were developed by Western Washington University along with the first turbo ea81, using a SU carburettor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I've got a pretty good thread going over at one of the VW diesel forums link plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-VOLKSWAGEN-TURBO-DIESEL-VW-JETTA-45-MPG-REBUILT-MOTOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6021QQitemZ4574615891QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-RABBIT-PICKUP-JETTA-GOLF-TURBO-DIESEL-1-6L-ENGINE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQitemZ7999458071QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Imagine if somebody could find a way to fit one of those new VW Golf TDI motors in a soob:brow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operose Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Imagine if somebody could find a way to fit one of those new VW Golf TDI motors in a soob:brow: indeed! if you check out the front page of http://www.green-trust.org there is a link about a 76mpg TDI beetle......... WOWZAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom2turbo2 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 And the Nissan diesels were never turbod for the old ones. ..... International Harvester used Nissan diesel engines in the Scout II starting in 1979, first normally asperated, and then turbocharged versions. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 my 1.6 vw diesel N/A would beat my EA82 carby manual off the line, up the hills and down the road any day... what was the redline in those rabbits anyway? they had a 1.6 right? had to be slow with no turbo and that puny engine. swap in a turbo engine from the jetta? pyrometer, boost guage, new head studs, intercooler, 2.5" turbo back straight pipe and crank up the boost maybe drop the compression with a 1 notch bigger head gasket and play with the fuel watching the EGT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 link plz http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1143&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 The thread wanders a little, but there's some in there about the subaru swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 my 1.6 vw diesel N/A would beat my EA82 carby manual off the line, up the hills and down the road any day... Well, at this altitude, my old EA81 was only rated at 55 HP, which is the same as the 1.6 diesel, and less torque too, which I've found is more important than horsepower starting up. (I found out when I tried to drive a stick shift '95 honda civic once, and it just stalled when I tried to drive it like my '82 suby) The VW 1.9TDI is rated at 110HP, and 180 ft lbs of torque at 1800 RPM And can be chipped/modded to around 140HP and 250ftlbs) Does anyone know whether the subaru transmissions can take that much torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84gl Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 the ea81 is 73hp 93 torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 the ea81 is 73hp 93 torque At sea level. I drive in between 5,000 and 12,000 feet. I think I may have also taken off an additional 10% for having 200k+ miles on it. Of course the NA diesel will also suffer from the elevation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Of course the NA diesel will also suffer from the elevation... So turbo it! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 So turbo it! :cool: Exactly. I love the turbo on my diesel Mitzi truck, especially up above 8,000 ft. Sorry about the incorrect info on the turbo's on the nissans. I meant that none of the nissan cars (like the sentra and maxima) had it as a stock option on the US models. It was on ones in other countries, and it appears it was on nissan diesels used by other manufacturers. Odd that very few of the US diesel cars ever got turbos early on, but other countries did. Just another way to turn people off diesels. Even Canada had alot more turbodiesel VW's back in the 80's. Must have been the pricing -- more expensive, and people didn't understand why they were paying more... Or maybe it was just the beginning of the problem now -- all the manufacturers assume that no one wants a diesel, and leave me to salivate about the engine options that Australia has compared to the US for new cars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Boxer + Diesel=VW Vanagon Diesel. Just get the KEP adapter plate and a custom flywheel and of course do all the wiring, fuel changes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeEyedBandit Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Boxer + Diesel=VW Vanagon Diesel. Just get the KEP adapter plate and a custom flywheel and of course do all the wiring, fuel changes, etc. Arn't the vanagon diesel engines inline, aka the same as the jetta, golf...... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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