SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Okay.. so I just did a compression test on the brat. #1 - 148.. #2 - 155.. #3 - 150.. #4 - 130 (Nooo!) I'm thinking bad rings.. Junkie told me maybe gasket though.. Anyway.. since I'm going to be in there messin with that stuff anyway.. Jessica's uncle thinks we should try and get bigger jugs and pistons (going 2.0) I was wondering if anyone has done this.. any info on this.. do they even got 'em.. etc.. So, let's hear it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Maybe you could get to 2.0l with a custon crankshaft giving longer stroke, but theres not nearly enough thickness in the cylinder walls to bore out that far. I think the boring limit is 0.5mm over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Those numbers really aren't toooo bad. If it's a HG, you'll be losing coolant. If that's not the case, it's probably going to be rings. As far as boring out, it would be really expensive as you'd probably have to get custom pistons made and all sorts of crap since nobody has done much of that sort of thing with these engines. I've had good luck just honing the cylinders and replacing the rings. If you want more power, swap in an EJ motor. That could be done for less than rebuilding your engine even with keeping it stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sorry, won't work lots of difference in piston size. Thats really not that bad of #s either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Ok.. he said it's not boring.. but like a jugs/piston kit.. they have them for VW's / Porches.. i didnt know wtf he was talkin about though... hone/rings sounds fine to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stngllhm Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 some moters you can pull the cylinder off the block and just replace that. this design is very common in two strokes and the bigger diesels. your ea81 is not like this though the cylinder and the block are all one piece. i hope this all makes since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 some moters you can pull the cylinder off the block and just replace that. this design is very common in two strokes and the bigger diesels. your ea81 is not like this though the cylinder and the block are all one piece. i hope this all makes since. Makes perfect sense to me.. Thanks for clearing this up for me. I'm just going to hone and do the rings then. I will have to replace the head gaskets and valve cover gaskets while I'm in there? Any recommendations of other stuff I need to do while I'm in there? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 yar, you dont have jugs... you have two crank case halfs, with the cylinders attached/sleved in the aluminum case. huh huh juggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 ....huh huh juggs. *BOIOIOIOING* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bratavenger Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 If you get the head gasket set it comes with HG, valve cover gasket, valve stem gaskets for intake only(or was that exaust) anyway one per cylinder, therastat gasket, intake man. gaskets, and several others. I just finished on on my 82' Brat and it cost about $70.00. You will have to buy new exaust man. gaskets though cuz the ones that come in the kit are crap. Hope this gives you a better idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Cant the sleeves be removed? Isnt that what SuBrat84 is asking? I have heard about people pulling the sleeves out and redoing them with larger ones. And not just on metric bikes and diesels. Anyone? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Thanks avenger, sounds like a good kit. Got a URL for a place to buy it? Yeah.. I want to redo my exhaust gaskets anyway.. good idea / bad idea to use ultra copper gasket sealer on exhaust?? and uhmm.. anyone know a good place to get an aftermarket or oem y-pipe / catalytic converter? It's kinda getting hard to try and weld the holes shut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bratavenger Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Yes Alex, It cn be done but It would take a lot of special machine fabrication and alot more $$$$$ than it is worth IMO. You would be better off doing as Snowman said and fitting an EJ motor in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Cant the sleeves be removed? Isnt that what SuBrat84 is asking? I have heard about people pulling the sleeves out and redoing them with larger ones. And not just on metric bikes and diesels. Anyone? Alex This is what I was asking.. my uncle was calling them "jugs" ... he said people do them all the time in VW's and Porche's .. but i can see where they'd be a solid piece.. my atv is solid... I'm not too worried about it.. just wanted to see what kind of info i could get about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I know you can re-sleeve diesels, but i don't think its an option for an ea81. For one thing, theres not that much room around the existing sleeves as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Just so you all know, jugs are more air cooled terminology than sleeves. motor with jugs will have cylinders that are bolted onto the crankcase. Because VW and Porsche are air cooled, they have these style of cylinders. I believe the corvair is the same way. Jugs will have the sleeve and the exterior all in one piece. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Just so you all know, jugs are more air cooled terminology than sleeves. motor with jugs will have cylinders that are bolted onto the crankcase. Because VW and Porsche are air cooled, they have these style of cylinders. I believe the corvair is the same way. Jugs will have the sleeve and the exterior all in one piece. Alex That's the best answer to this thread I've seen yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Just so you all know, jugs are more air cooled terminology than sleeves. motor with jugs will have cylinders that are bolted onto the crankcase. Because VW and Porsche are air cooled, they have these style of cylinders. I believe the corvair is the same way. Jugs will have the sleeve and the exterior all in one piece. Alex IIRC, the term originated with aircooled aircraft engines, specifically radial engines. It was not uncommon to change out cylinders in large bombers/transports while the airplane was in flight! Many engines have removable cylinder liners, but few modern engines are designed this way. I believe that the Subarus use cast-in-place liners (I don't think that that is the proper term, but it will do): The iron or steel liners are placed in the casting mold and the aluminum is cast around them. That would make them very hard to remove. Of course, you could do what some motorcycle makers did (do?): Use aluminum cylinder walls and then coat them with chromium and such. Could use Honda's method of exploding metallic wire in the cylinder to plasma-coat the walls. Then, all you would need to do is have custom pistons cast or forged, and then you would have... ... an 11% increase in displacement. hmmm.... The displacement per se is not really the issue, but how much air you can get into the cylinders. Grand Prix (Formula 1) cars used to be limited to 1.5Litres... It would be more cost effective to either improve the breathing of the engine or go to a later engine such as the EJ22. "Big Bore" kits are pretty much a thing of the last millenium. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sorry Alex.. North has got ya beat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sorry Alex.. North has got ya beat! I don't have Alex beat... I was just wordier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Not worried, and yes, the old radials on airplanes were the original jug style motors. Thanks for the nice technical info. Yes, more breathing is far better than big bore, I was just trying to bring about a clearer definition on jugs/sleeves. The more I hear stroked and bored the more I hear about starter problems etc... If you want a reliable vehicle, worry about how it breathes, what the ignition is like, cooling. You can do a lot on performance with these factors. If you want an unreliable maintence track only vehicle and can afford it, go ahead and do a bore and/or stroke. I think the basic motors are pretty damn good, just need some simple mods to help them aspirate. If you know anyone with bored or especially stroked big inch motorcycle, ask them honestly how much up time they have. youd be surprised. The number one complaint from the big inch owners is starters and daily drivability. Sorry, I know motorcycles arent exactly subes, but they still share the same concept 4-cycle engine. Just saying a lesson should be taken from them. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Are you going to do a complete rebuild while you're in there? (That's what I would recommend). For my EA82, I got rings, bearings, gaskets, and an oil pump for around $600 or $700, I can't remember which, from 1stsubaruparts.com. OEM is the only way to go for most engine parts in my opinion. (People have had BAD luck with NAPA headgaskets, and you can get SOA parts cheaper than NAPA from the place I just mentioned.) Then you could get the heads done up by a machine shop with a resurface and valve grind for about $150. It's up to you, but if I was tearing the motor apart that far, I'd go ahead and replace everything because then you're set for another gajillion miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 A new "factory stock" replacement Y-pipe is spendy to say the least, upwards of $260.00. www.discountconverter.com They have a listing for the stock converter, you'll have to have the header pipes bent though. They also have a multitude of other converters 'specially in the universal listings. Like a Dual 2" in/outlet one, both with and without O2 sensor fitting. Thinking of that one myself for use on all of the 'Roos I have here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Not that anyone gives a rat's rump roast, but in the diesel world, removable cylinder sleeves are called 'liners'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Are those numbers bad or something? Floor it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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