MG McAnick Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I recently bought a dead XT6- AWD with a broken timing belt. It has almost 150,000 miles on it. Yesterday we put on a new pair of belts and fired it up. I don't know much about the car's history. When we started the engine, the lifters were quite noisy. Other than that, the car seems to run well. It was being driven up till last week when the belt broke, but the former owner doesn't know (or isn't telling) how noisy it was before we replaced the belts. He only drove it a month or so. It was supposedly parked for quite a while before he got it. When the belt broke, he decided to wash his hands of the whole thing. My questions are these: Is there any chance the lifters will quiet down? Has anyone tried one of theose "miracles in a can" to quiet XT-6 lifters? If so, which one was successful? The oil lever is right on the mark, and oil pressure is about 2/3 up the gage when warmed up at 40 MPH. I'd say that was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 The lifter noise will often go away if you just drive the car hard for a while. I have personally had great success with Marvel Mystery Oil, while others have said that Seafoam works very well. Do a search on the issue and you will find a HUGE amount of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 If the canned stuff doesnt do the trick, the oil pump seal/gasket might need to be replaced. Dealer item, usually around $28 and you need to remove most of the front of engine to do it :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted April 26, 2005 Author Share Posted April 26, 2005 If the canned stuff doesnt do the trick, the oil pump seal/gasket might need to be replaced. Dealer item, usually around $28 and you need to remove most of the front of engine to do it :cool: If the engine displays good oil pressure, wouldn't the oil pump seal have to be good? If it were leaking, the pressure would be low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 If the engine displays good oil pressure, wouldn't the oil pump seal have to be good? If it were leaking, the pressure would be low. That seems logical doesn't it? But it doesn't work that way with these. I fugured the same when I was first learning about these engines, and had the darn ticking so badly. Apparently these external oil pumps can suck air when the micky mouse gasket is getting funky. I think part of the reason the lifters can be starved for oil in spite of the gauge reading good pressure is because of where the oil pressure sender is. check it out. Thats just theory on my part. All I know is that a new oil pump fixed my ticking. I probably could have done the same with a re-seal of the pump, but I like new stuff. Good luck. And yes, theres pages and pages on the ticking here. Good reading. Pyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Do an oil change, and add 1/4 to 1/2 a quart of ATF, yes ATF to it. Drive it hard for a while...then putt around...then drive it hard, then putt around...then hard, it should go away. ATF is a detergent...it will help clean the lifters out, if anything is clogged. Maybe you do have an oil pump seal going bad, but this is a cheap try. [HTi]Johnson Oh yeah, when was the last time the oil was changed. Maybe it thinned out too much?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Got that Tick-Tick-Tick in my XT-6 too. More so when engine is cold, less so after it warms up. Poured some MMO in the oil and ran it a few days, seemed to help some. Did an oil/filter change and put some more MMO in. Did a 230 mile road trip, the Tick has lessened quite a bit now. Still have it on start-up, but goes away rather quickly for the most part. Sometimes one will Tick for a while, sometimes all 12 (thousand) of them will Tick. Sometimes, it be a light Tick, sometimes it be way LOUD. Going to either order a new pump, or just get a re-seal kit for this one. Oil pressure is right up there where it should be, but as said previously, maybe it's just cause of where gauge sensor is located. When pump seals go bad, they tend to suck air instead of oil. Pressure is pressure, be it oil or be it air, but air doesn't do so well in the HLA's, so they Tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 it will go away in time from simplay drivning it and having good oil and oil change cycles. Ive had serveral EA82 (same engine, just 2 less pistons) engines do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG McAnick Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 The oil is quite clear, but I don't know how old it is, its brand or viscosity. It was there when I bought the car. It was about half a QT low. I added a pint can of Seafoam to it yesterday and have driven it about 20 miles, mostly at 60 to 70 MPH. So far there has been no change, although it MIGHT have been a bit quieter after it was good and warmed up. I'll continue to drive it next week to see what happenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 It'll take a little bit for them to quiet'n up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 But then again, maybe not http://xt6.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30466#30466 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeakingOil Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 My past experience is...can stuff works for so long. I used it, it helped a bit and then one day *BOOM* big hole in my block, rod flew up smacked the coolant bar and vvvvwalla..XT6 waiting for new engine. As soon as I can tear into the blown one I'll post up pics. Proper fixes always best, can stuff is only a band-aid. Oh yeah...my Mickey Mouse seal cost me $15+ chang at the dealer. I miss my baby! Smiles, Melis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 My past experience is...can stuff works for so long.I used it, it helped a bit and then one day *BOOM* big hole in my block, rod flew up smacked the coolant bar and vvvvwalla..XT6 waiting for new engine. what "can stuff" were you using? and what oil did your engine have in it? I and mechanic friends of mine who have been working on cars since the 1950's have all used MMO for some time now with great success - knock off stuff like "Motor Honey" we never use Motor Honey is an unstable polymer - really screws around with your oil, because of that reason; it can do more harm than good - can stuff is fine so long as you are careful about what you are using and what problem you are trying to fix with it - it is also just about the only way to clean the HLA's, you will have to do it chemically even if you do pull them anyway, may as well clean them in the engine, and all the other working parts as well ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeakingOil Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I used, MMO and seafoam, oil was Valvoline high milage 10W40 (not syn)...don't get me wrong...these are great products, but I believe it's not always the best solution. Not sure what happened to the engine. Just made a clank noise, lights faded on then faded off, got to the side of the road and then lights came on and smoke poured from the bay. When cleared enough to see somewhat there it was a big hole right there behind my alt. and the rod was laying cock-eyed in it...can't tell you what happened until total tear down, but I had the tick for a long time until she wanted to tick no more. Hocrest drove it the day before and said it was running fine. It was fine up until the big boom. Things I've been reading since my problem is that the oil pump gasket will get "sucked" in partly and that causes the air to get into it and thus the ticking and with time it eventually gets sucked in lots and I think that's what happened to me. We''ll see in time. I'm still learning. Smiles, Melis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 two discussions are taking place at the same time right now. the symptoms are similar but the causes and solutions are different. mmo and ATF are solutions to faulty HLA's. resealing the oil pump is a solution for corrupted oil supply (bad seals/gaskets at the oil pump). Discussion 1 - MMO and ATF are solutions to HLA's that are dirty or sticky or stuck and not functioning properly. frequent oil changes and a long time may eventually free them up. MMO and ATF will expedite the process. if the car isn't driven or run much or is opened up (rebuild/reseal) for some reason it is common for them to be very loud for quite some time. take note of the noise, if it comes from one or more cylinders and never from other cylinders then the problem is an HLA. (if the ticking is on one side of the engine it could be something else, but that's rare so i'm not going to mention it). a compression test can also help nail down a stuck HLA. a bad HLA can degrade compression readings at that cylinder. if MMO and ATF don't clear up the ticking then you need to replace the HLA's at the noisy cylinders. pull the cam tower off and carefully inspect your HLA's. you'll notice that frozen or stuck/noisy HLA will be *shorter* than the rest. for instance, lay a ruler across all your HLA's and the tops of them should all be in a straight line. any one that is not in line with the rest is the culprit of your noise. i wouldn't try this method of diagnosis on an engine that's been sitting on a motor stand or in a garage for awhile. it might work, but will work best with freshly used and lubricated HLA's. replace faulty HLA's and be on your way. you can even clean them yourself if you feel so inclined. i've done it, it's simple but time consuming. from now on i'll just buy them or have mine cleaned/rebuilt. Discussion 2 - if your ticking is all over the place (by location - not frequency) and random, then it's an oil supply problem and a new gasket/oring and seal will solve your problem. (there's a slight chance it could be something else, but highly unlikey so i won't list them). a bad seal can still give pressure readings that look good. who cares what your pressure reading is, forget about that, if your HLA's are ticking THEY are telling you there is a problem, not the pressure gauge. air bubbles are incurred somewhere in the oil supply and end up in the HLA's. air is compressible and oil is not. the HLA's do not function properly with excessive air bubbles in them, because the air inside of them compresses where oil would not. try putting air bubbles in your brake lines and see how well they work....okay don't do that....i'll just tell you, not very good! similar principle here, air is compressible and won't allow the HLA's to do their job properly. replace your oil pump shaft seal and oring. typically there are two ports on the gasket/oring behind the oil pump, the oring material gets *sucked* into one of the ports. i've seen it many times, the oring will be deformed when you remove it, verifying the cause of your problem. i JUST threw one away that was laying on my bench. i was going to take a picture of it, but just tossed it instead like 2 days ago. there is a way to permanently fix this, a guy i know actually made little tiny metal insert to slide into each port, making it impossible for the oring to get sucked into the port again. i haven't chosen to do that since replacing the gaskets/seals properly has always worked for me. do it properly, apply a very small amount of anaerobic sealant (not on the gasket) where the engine block halves meet at noon and 6 oclock on behind the oil pump housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 This should be in the USRM. Great write up Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 thanks rob. Xt6er's are tearing this topic up.....pretty good showing for one thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Any more info on those little tubes you mentioned? Sounds like a good idea to me. And yes, excellant write-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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