Tell me about gaskets, bolts, oil leaks?

[Hank Roberts]

My old friend was, um, at best delusional about the condition of his GL 1988. The used engine he had put in 60,000 miles ago has been godawful. Fixed the clogged EGR ports and misrouted vacuum tubes, now it's just oil leaks -- 2 quarts per 500 miles.

 

The compression is even -- I've been told -- but each mechanic so far has said oh, no reason to check the cylinders individually ... I mistrust this.

Right? Wrong? Totally off track?

 

I'm totally suspicious now of hidden flaws and undisclosed damage -- was it ever overheated badly? I dunno -- and the local mechanic, who does seem so far to know his stuff, says it's losing oil everywhere. Badly, which I know it is. So -- since it's a manual with low range 4wd, I'm keeping it -- it needs more work. I know these engines do leak oil.

 

Tell me about gaskets.

 

Berkeley's 'SOS Subaru' says there's only one kind of gasket, the ones made for Subaru.

 

In these threads, I read mention of copper gaskets, and NAPA gaskets, and I don't know what all else. For an 1800 SPFI engine, what's good?

 

Tell me about bolts. I know about fake bolts -- aviation, including hang gliding and the Space Shuttle, is plagued by counterfeit bolts.

 

http://twilight.saic.com/qawg/Misc/EH92_4.htm

 

Tell me about using studs instead of bolts, if anyone makes them for the 1800 engine -- I understand the logic (put them in finger tight instead of torquing them, then torque the nuts on the studs -- makes sense, done on other engines, but on Subarus?)

 

Tell me about re-torquing (after warmup? After 500 miles? Only on new OEM bolts?)

 

Tell me again about gaskets (grin).

 

Yes, I'm probably going to end up paying the local shop for this -- the car lost two quarts of oil in 500 miles, the one trip I made to the mountains.

 

And, what else -- assuming going in and replacing all the gaskets and bolts -- is worth doing, in there?

 

-----

Yes, I realize it'd have been simpler to buy another engine from Colorado. I promise, next time, I will.

[Ross]

The compression is even -- I've been told -- but each mechanic so far has said oh, no reason to check the cylinders individually ... I mistrust this.

Right? Wrong? Totally off track?

 

That does sound odd. If you are suspicious of compression you should have it checked.

 

Berkeley's 'SOS Subaru' says there's only one kind of gasket, the ones made for Subaru.

In these threads, I read mention of copper gaskets, and NAPA gaskets, and I don't know what all else. For an 1800 SPFI engine, what's good?

Aftermarket gaskets exist, oems are better for important ones sych as head gaskets, inlet manifold gaskets etc.

Tell me about bolts. I know about fake bolts -- aviation, including hang gliding and the Space Shuttle, is plagued by counterfeit bolts.

 

I would use reputable grade 8.8 bolts for most applications. On some engiens, especially diesel, the oem ones are grade 10.8 or higher, probbaly not on subies though.

Tell me about re-torquing (after warmup? After 500 miles? Only on new OEM bolts?)

 

You have to re-torque head bolts after warm up. I don't THINK ea82 head bolts are yielding bolts, so they should be ok to use again. Not sure on that though.

[s'ko]

Welcome to the board.

 

Let me tell you that you are "Welcome to the leaking soob club."

 

Let me tell you of the common places for oil to leak are

1) front main seal

2) oil pump o-rings and seals

3) Oil pan

4) Valve Covers

5) Rear main seal.

 

Good luck.

 

BW

[erik litchy]

i cant find threaded rod in that thread. its M11x1.25

[erik litchy]

this thread is relavant http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25162&highlight=M11x1.25

[Hank Roberts]

this thread is relavant http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25162&highlight=M11x1.25

 

Good pointer, thanks Erik! Summary -- too expensive to buy ARP studs, though they can provide them given measurements.

 

Below that thread the board gave me links to a LOT more threads than I found using the Search function for 'gaskets' -- to sum those up:

-- copper can be made up special order given a template, but the template available is for a turbo engine gasket.

 

Looks like stock Subaru OEM for my situation. More info welcome! I'll try to keep summarizing anything else y'all point to -- there's far more here than I'm finding by searching for threads, and your memories are better than the computer for finding them.

 

Next question is -- how much better can it be made and how soon does it start leaking badly again!?

 

Oh, and the list for significant leaks for my engine is:

 

Back cover of timing belt

Valve cover gaskets

Cam tower

Front engine seal

Head gasket

 

And I know oil is leaking, because, besides the dipstick evidence, when I open the hood, the low spots on the flat metal plate between engine and wheel/axle hold pools of fresh oil; wiped out, it looks clean (sigh); rechecked after driving, it's filled again. This is beyond a safe little leak.

[erik litchy]

i have the exact problem with my engine, in fact theres a large thread about it. right now its apart because along with the seals my oil rings were seized, and i found out one of my pistons was worn .002" more than the rest. im trying to find aftermarket or used parts as my local dealer takes weeks to get parts.

 

and on my engine it was every seal that leaked. the bellhousing was disgusting and still isnt clean.

[85Sub4WD]

Back cover of timing belt

Valve cover gaskets

Cam tower

Front engine seal

Head gasket

It sounds like you need a complete reseal - this manual will help for the engine specs - the 1988 and 1989 are almost identical http://www.finleyweb.net/default.asp?id=142

It sounds like your engine may very well have been overheated - all the symptoms you give are indicative of that - oil seals break in large numbers when an engine is cooked, because the rubber breaks down thermally - pistons can also expand to the point where they rub cylinder walls, causing abnormal wear

 

Just out of curiosity - is it possible it could be as simple as a bad PCV valve??? a clogged PCV valve would potientially cause major oil leakage - while not the most likely, it is the cheapest possibility - OEM's are best

[Hank Roberts]

I've already been through the sensor-related components on the engine -- PCV and EGR - valves, solenoids, and the ports in the engine itself those are attached to were all clogged solid. Had get them clean, to get past recurrent check engine light problems.

 

All happened far enough away from me that I didn't know how bad it had been til after it was my car.

 

Since I do need the 4wd manual low range wagon, and so far it has been good otherwise, I'm persisting.

 

Yeah, sounds like it was overheated, or else assembled with reused gaskets and used bolts -- or both -- to me, but I'm a novice at Subaru engines -- and the mechanic I relied on (for Toyotas) since 1976 retired a few years ago!

 

Thus, having to educate myself here -- so I can face this next step.

[NorthWet]

The copper headgaskets and super-strength studs are mostly for those of us who can't keep our headgaskets from blowing every few weeks, or those who wish their engine was powerful enough to blow its HGs every few weeks.

 

OE headgaskets should be good enough, if you want to replace them while you are replacing other gaskets. Headbolts are nothing special; no "torque to yield", no unobtanium alloy. Head studs would be nice, but ARP studs are probably overkill even for those of us that really want them. (For us Yanks, Ross' reference to "Grade 8.8" bolts is equivalent to our "Grade 5", or common hardware-store bolt.)

 

Just replace the gaskets that s'ko and others have mentioned, be meticulous in your cleaning, applying of any sealants, and your removal/replacement of seals, and things should work fine. Excellent time to replace timing-belts, inspect/replace t-belt tensioners, and to consider replacing the waterpump.

[Ross]

(For us Yanks, Ross' reference to "Grade 8.8" bolts is equivalent to our "Grade 5", or common hardware-store bolt.)

 

 

Are you sure your Grade 5 isn't equivalent to metric grade 4.6?? 8.8 is a high tensile bolt for use on friction joints.

[Subsforever]

has any one else had both their rear crankcase bolts strip out and leak oil. Right now my engine is held together in the back by the bell housing and that might give out soon becuase it has a crack in it by the starter. What would be the most likely cause overheating or over torqueing by some previous owner or mechanic.

[erik litchy]

has any one else had both their rear crankcase bolts strip out and leak oil. Right now my engine is held together in the back by the bell housing and that might give out soon becuase it has a crack in it by the starter. What would be the most likely cause overheating or over torqueing by some previous owner or mechanic.

 

just use a nut on a longer bolt. more secure

[NorthWet]

Are you sure your Grade 5 isn't equivalent to metric grade 4.6?? 8.8 is a high tensile bolt for use on friction joints.

Since the USA's consumer-hardware market only gives a grudging acknowledgement to metric, I would not swear to the equivalency, and the source of my information is lost in past decades. However, the last time I looked the lowest/only grade of metric bolts that I can get locally are stamped as 8.8.

 

I will gladly defer to someone who's country/industry actually embraces the metric standard. (*muttering to self*: now, did I need a USC or USF thread for that part... or was it pipe...)