AKIRA Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Well it appears there are some differences then. "my wiring diagram shows a wire leaving the charge light and going straight to a 15A fuse" Does the diagram show where the other side of the fuse goes? The power side of it. "What is the #12 fuse called?" The fuse supplies power to many control circuits for relays and warning lights. One thing you might try is to check the voltage of all the fuses and see if you can find any more with less than 12 volts on them with the car running or the ignition on at least. ok, I was able to trace it, the fuse the charge light (bw) wire leads to, a wire comes out of the fuse rail (black), it goes through the same connector the wr wires goes through, then to the ignition switch and the fuel pump. I was able to narrow it down to two posssible fuses, I will test the fuses for voltage after I post this, I just wanted to get this out before I got it mixed up in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Technicians are standing by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 ok, well the black wire doesn't route throught the same connector block as the wr wire, it just exits the fuse and then dissapears into the dark regions of the dashboard. ok, well all of the fuses except the "charge" fuse are reading 11.5 - 11.8 volts, the charge has about 5. I was able to measure the voltage going to the #12 fuse, the ignition switch, and the fuel pump, all read ~11.5 volts the continuity from the wr wire to the black is good, with about 1.64k ohms (the resistance of the charge bulb fillament probabaly) what should I do now? and now for your entertainment, a fat cougar http://www.collegehumor.com/?image_id=153148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Looking at my manual again it shows that not only the charge light is in the circuit but other warning lights tie in also. As our next step, lets make sure all the warning lights turn on when the ignition is on. If they are ok, then lets verify you can get charging going by jumpering one of the working 15a fuse circuits to the charge fuse. The alternator should charge then. Another thing you might try is tapping on suspected areas with a screwdriver handle to see for you can pinpoint the area that way. We sure could use a good wiring diagram about now. I will try making a new post to see if anyone can help out with this. That is one fat cat in the picture. I feel sorry for it. It can't be good for it to be so heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Had some response to the request for info. One poster suggested looking for some fuses under the glove box area. Another said to check the fusible links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 Had some response to the request for info. One poster suggested looking for some fuses under the glove box area. Another said to check the fusible links. the glovebox fuses are for a gen 1, mine is a gen 2 I have already checked the fuseable links, they are good. I did alot of tapping & shaking, doesn't work. (it made the lights dim before, but now does squat) all the warning lights turn on when the ignition is on. I jumped the wire, it worked. I got 13.47v off of the battery, no "wrong" lights, voltmeter was in the white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 the glovebox fuses are for a gen 1, mine is a gen 2 I have already checked the fuseable links, they are good. I did alot of tapping & shaking, doesn't work. (it made the lights dim before, but now does squat) all the warning lights turn on when the ignition is on. I jumped the wire, it worked. I got 13.47v off of the battery, no "wrong" lights, voltmeter was in the white. which wire did you jump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Well we need to find out where that black wire ties to. You can at least use the jumper trick until we can discover where it goes to. To McBrat: The wire I had him jump power to is the lamp warning lead to the alternator. There is a break somewhere in the line between power and the fuse that feeds that lead. It is a black wire and we don't know where it gets power from. I just had him bypass the power input temporarily until we can find the problem to get his alternator going. Do you have access to a Brat type 2 wiring diagram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I have a '84 FSM and the Bentley manual which I like better for the wiring diagram... but I won't have access until late tonight.... seems to me that there are a couple of in-line fuses under the dash that should be checked as well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 That would be great if you had the info we need here. My '88 GL manual shows there are two regular fuses involved with the circuit also but the circuits are a little different between the two so we can't use it as a guide. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I have a '84 FSM and the Bentley manual which I like better for the wiring diagram... but I won't have access until late tonight.... seems to me that there are a couple of in-line fuses under the dash that should be checked as well...... McBrat: Were you able to find your service manual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 dang it... totally spaced it off last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I am good at that also. If you can find where that wire goes it would be great. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 okay, looks like it's coming from the tach.... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/mick/mick-usrm/charge.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Thanks for the scan McBrat. It shows some of the info but it looks like something is missing, that is further down to the right on the drawing. At the alternator you go from the "L" lead and it goes to the 'A' arrow ( I recently figured out that these arrows point in a straight line to the other end, wherever that arrow points to). Moving down the drawing a little ways you see the other end for 'A' and it ties to #12- a 10amp fuse. On the other end of the fuse there is another arrow 'O' but the drawing was too large for the scan to show the other end. Can you make another scan that shows the other end of the 'O' arrow and what it ties to. Thanks for your time and efforts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 the "O" it points to is the fluid temp switch and warning light for 4WD AT only *edit* that pic was for the turbo brat carbed one coming shortly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 okay, here is the proper one.... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/mick/mick-usrm/charge.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Thanks very much for your help McBrat. I see it is tied to power through fuse #13. AKIRA: Did you follow that drawing? The fuse the black wire goes to should be fuse #13. Check for a bad connection to it. I would print this out for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 ok I am confused, fuse #13 is which one? the black wire connects to 4 fuses in the fuse box, and each one has a good connection to ground. I used my meter, there is no continuity between the wr wire to the black wire? and a very weird thing, with the car running I get 13.6 volts at the battery, I turned it off it measured 13 and was slowly dropping, it leveled out at 12.6 when I checked it a few minutes later and the lights are still on. just great. and sorry about the slow response, I was out of town for a few days, and I'll be out of town for a few more starting tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 The fuses shouldn't be tied to ground. From your previous posts I thought you stated that the black ties to the hot side of the fuse that feeds the 'L' lead on the alternator. According to the drawings that should tie to fuse #13. The fuses may be numbered left to right and top to bottom. The voltage at the battery you saw is normal. There will be more when the car runs and it will drop down as the battery sits to around 12.5 volts and should settle around there. I don't recall any trouble with the lights before. What lights are on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 I am back. what is the "L" lead on the alt. ? the White/Red wire? I meant the dash lights, sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Yes, the 'L' lead refers to the lamp lead or the w/r wire to the exciter of the alternator. The lead needs to supply voltage to the exciter to energize it for the field windings to work. The rotor passes through the energized magnetic field and then the three phase AC voltage is produced. The three phases are rectified to DC, then regulated to around 14.5 volts for the battery charging. Your alternator had no exciter voltage, so you had no output until you bypassed the bad supply connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 sorry about the slow moving here, I got back from mass. yesterday, hadn't slept in 26 hrs. I am not sure which one the 13 fuse is, the black wire hooks to four fuses, two of which are back\white, but going from the black wire at the fuses to the wr wire at the 10A fuse I get 1.642K ohms, the resistiance of the bulb so the connection between those should be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 That is correct. You proved that the wire to the lamp lead was good when you bypassed the bad power lead and tied power to the fuse. The alternator worked. Your problem is in the other direction from the fuse. You need to see why power is not getting to the 10 amp fuse. According to the print, that fuse is fed power from fuse #13 through the charging indicator light and the diode. Th drawing states that the 10 amp fuse is #12 so the fuse to the right of it should be #13. You have stated before that the charge lamp was working ok. Looking at the drawing, that charge lamp is in series between fuse 13 and fuse 12. I don't see how the light can be working and you not have voltage getting to the lamp lead, unless you are looking at the wrong lamp. Having a bad charge lamp would explain the whole problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIRA Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 the charging lamp is lit up, it is the one to the left of the voltmeter. it is working. the 10A fuse (#12) is getting 2 volts when the car is on, abut 7 when the car is running. you said this wire is being backfed from the alt., maybe that is why the light is on, its running off of the 2-7volts being backfed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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