97 DOHC Head Gasket Insurance claim with Jiffy Lube

[UMPhil]

So,

knowing that my high mileage GT has suffered a blown head gasket kind of sucks. I visited my Jiffy Lube, who had done a radiator flush just before the car began showing symptoms. The rump roast. Manager told me that the subaru head gaskets will go if the line is not bled properly. He told me that only the manager does them because of the risk involved with a difficult bleeder. After some investigation, it became clear that the manager was not working when my car had been serviced.

I spoke with the local subaru mechanic and he said that the vast majority of blown HGs that they see (which is a lot of cars) present within 3,000 miles of an improper flush and bleed, regardless of miles on the car.

Jiffy Lube's insurance would like me to prove that they caused the damage or to show negligence. I would argue that letting someone other than the manager do the job and not telling me of the danger and letting me make the informed choice was negligence. I don't know if they see it that way. They would like to see my evidence. A lot of people throw around their opinions here. My question is: Does anyone have any documents or statements from subaru or Jiffy Lube that might help me show the connection between the failure and the improper flush?

[outback_97]

UMPhil:

 

That's an interesting one. I have never seen any document from SOA that even hints at a problem (on the Phase 1's), so I doubt you'll find that. The fact that anecdotally there are a lot of failures (not necessarily a high percentage, but a good number) and the fact that they revised the HG design at least a few times suggests they were and are aware of it. But I wouldn't count on anything in writing.

 

I don't know if it necessarily behooves you to have anything from SOA indicating that the HG's are a problem, 'cause then JL can just say it was a coincidence, it would've gone anyway and just happened to occur after their coolant service.

 

You're looking for something that links the improper coolant service to the HG failure and I've never seen anything, I wish you luck though. You might want to try looking through the failed HG "guestbook" via the link below to see if there's any connection.

 

I have a 97 with the 2.5l Phase 1 at 113K miles and am frankly scared to change the coolant for this exact reason. I'm afraid that it could develop HG or overheating problems due to incomplete purging of air from the system.

 

If it is of any help I have a little info page with some HG related links here:

http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html

 

Steve

[richierich]

You expect Jiffy Lube to pay for your headgasket failure, on a vehicle that is KNOWN for headgasket failure, ( look it up in our search engine, about every post on the 2.5 is bubble in the overflow bottle) Just because they were the last to touch it? If you drove away from Jiffy Lube and the temperature guage did not shoot to hot within a couple of blocks then it did not have an air bubble, no air bubble no fault.

 

 

Did they tell you it needed a coolant service, or did you ask them to do it? If they said it needed a coolant service, was it because the antifreeze was discolored? If it was then chances are that the headgaskets have been bad for a while. Headgaskets usually show signs of Hydrocarbons in the overflow bottle. When I car comes in, for service we visually inspect the overflow bottle and smell the antifreeze.

 

I am not a big Fan of Jiffy Lube but at the same time, it is hard to say it was Jiffy Lubes fault when there is no signs that it was.

[tomson1355]

I am not an expert. I have repaired only two DOHCs with leaky head gaskets. But I still have an opinion.

 

I don't think flushing has anything to do with HG failure on the 2.5 DOHC. The head gaskets don't "blow". They seep. Tiny air bubbles enter the coolant from the combustion chamber on the compression stroke. The leakage develops over time due to the design and construction of the block, heads, and gaskets. The design and construction was changed for the 2.5 SOHC and the seeping apparently stopped. SOHCs are probably flushed at the same rate as DOHCs yet don't develop the same head gasket problems. Therefore, I believe it is a design and construction flaw, and not improper flushing or filling of the cooling system. Flushing and filling are blamed because the first symptom most people notice is overheating, but I think the overheating is because the head gaskets are finally seeping after 100,000 miles or so of expansion and contraction related to heating and cooling.

 

Jiffy Lube should get a pass.

 

Tom

[stevetone]

I'm a little unclear - did your vehicle overheat shortly after the flush job? If so, then I say that the (improper) refill may have contributed to HG failure.

 

But, if there was no overheating, then why would a radiator flush "cause" a HG failure? That line of reasoning doesn't seem right to me, but I may be missing something.

[The Dude]

If you want someone to blame for your head gasket failure, blame Subaru. That is where the blame truly lies. At most, Jiffy Lube was an innocent bystander while your car suffered a time delayed drive-by shooting.