gyuunuuya Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hello I just bought my wife a 92 subaru legacy AWD, and am having the same problem. I'm a pretty good mechanic I think just FYI. Anyways I diagnosed the problem by first letting someone else drive the vehicle while I watched. The first thing the car did when turning was make a horrific clicking noise as if the axles were bad, yet the sound was coming from underneath the shifter. The second thing I noticed was that when turning sharply the rear wheel would actually try to lock up. Soooooo Next thing I did was lift just the rear left tire off the ground, put the car in nuetral with e-brake down, and tried to spin it. No matter how hard I pushed it wouldn't budge. Also when I lifted the tire off the ground initially it spun about 1/4 turn from the tourqe that was on the driveshaft. So I believe it's my clutches inside my tansfer case. Anyways my QUESTION is I disconnected the middle piece of the driveshaft since putting the 20 amp fuse into the FWD didn't seem to actually turn the car into 2WD mode since I'm guessing the clutch is welded together. Does anyone out there know enough about this to tell me wheather I'm running any kind of risk by taking out that piece of driveshaft? Thanks in advance PS I talked to a guy in san fransisco yesterday about the problem since no one down here in rich rump roast san diego knows anything about subaru's, and he told me that he never encountered such a problem ever, and he was a subaru specialist. If anyone's knows anything please contribute any info I might have missed. Also if you reply with how to fix the transfer case please rate on a scale of 1-10 how difficult it will be, since I'm not all to familiar with what gadgets and widgets I will need to line up the clutches correctly. PPS I dont' believe I mentioned that this is an automatic, so a viscous coupling is outta the question since I don't believe that automatics have viscous couplings. PPPS I been drinking so please try not to bag on my thought process to much. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 You'll have to remove the rear extension housing on the transmisson. It can be done with it still in the car. The plates and everything associated with the rear power transfer should be checked or replaced. Here's some blow up diagrams that should give you an idea of things. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system1.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system2.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyuunuuya Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 You'll have to remove the rear extension housing on the transmisson. It can be done with it still in the car. The plates and everything associated with the rear power transfer should be checked or replaced. Here's some blow up diagrams that should give you an idea of things. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system1.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system2.jpg http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/AWD_transfer_system3.jpg Wow thanks, That should help a lot. I bought the hanes manual for the car but of course it's about as helpful as asking a bum what stocks to invest in. I will climb under there this week and see what goodies I can find. By the way do u think I need any special tools for dis-or-re-assembling the transfer case? Thanks again in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comfortable Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 ...*snip** Great info - thanks! I'm involved in this '92 legacy project with Gyuunuuya. Until he can get the repairs underway, what do you think of the idea of just removing the rear section of the split driveshaft? The car seems to drive okay as a front-wheel-drive only in this mode. After removing the rear section of drive shaft, the rear (differential) seems to have a captive spline that doesn't want to slip out. It just spins nice and friendly. The front half of the drive shaft remains suspended between the transfer-case spline and the mid-drive-shaft bushing (so that it won't slip out of the oil seal backwards and fall in the street.) Has anyone done this? (As an emergency measure or semi-permanently?). The goal is to restore everything to AWD as time permits, but is there any known problem resulting from leaving out the rear drive shaft section while driving around town or short freeway trips? New question: what's the chances that that slip clutch being completely locked up (as if it were welded) - is just a simple solenoid or TCU or sensor problem? With the car in neutral, motor OFF, no e-brake set, and one rear tire off the ground (on a jack) - two men attempting to spin that rear tire by hand can't seem to get that clutch to slip even a tiny bit. Q: Is that clutch engaged at the 10% (max slippage) by springs, even with no fluid pressure? Or does that indicate that the real problem is inside the transfer case, not sensors or TCU? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 you will not experience any problems driving around without the rear driveshaft. that is perfectly fine. is the POWER light for the transmission blinking 16 times at start up? that would indicate a problem. if DUTY solenoid C is stuck or that circuit is shorted it's possible that DUTY solenoid C is locking the rear transfer clutches and would mean your problem is much simpler. i have a switch spliced in-line for the duty solenoid C so that i can manually lock and unlock the rear transfer clutches when i want and not rely on the TCU to do it. your problem could be related to this solenoid or TCU. you could test this duty solenoid C circuit from the transmission wirring harness. off the top of my head i don't think your *one-tire-off-the-ground* test is quite sufficient for diagnosing this problem. i'm not really sure about that, but i would double check this before assuming that means anything. if i jack up one rear tire i don't know that i would expect it to turn easily on any of my automatic AWD soobs. i seem to recall lifting them up to line up the driveshaft holes after towing (remove/replace driveshaft) and i don't think mine turn when i just lift one wheel).....but again i'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyuunuuya Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 you will not experience any problems driving around without the rear driveshaft. that is perfectly fine. is the POWER light for the transmission blinking 16 times at start up? that would indicate a problem. if DUTY solenoid C is stuck or that circuit is shorted it's possible that DUTY solenoid C is locking the rear transfer clutches and would mean your problem is much simpler. i have a switch spliced in-line for the duty solenoid C so that i can manually lock and unlock the rear transfer clutches when i want and not rely on the TCU to do it. your problem could be related to this solenoid or TCU. you could test this duty solenoid C circuit from the transmission wirring harness. I'm don't think it's the solenoid since when I put the fuse in for 2 wheel drive mode it doesn't disengage the AWD. So I'm not sure but if it was eletrical shouldn't that fuse do the trick? Also there is a limited slip clutch inside the transfer case which should allow the rear wheel to spin freely if one is lifted off the ground (with the car in neutral and e-brake down of course). But then again maybe if the car it's on the wheel will automatically lock right? Well we tested that too, by starting the car and trying to spin the wheel yet to no avail. Thanks greatly for your info however, but I think we covered it. Unless I didn't get what you meant' and if not please re-verify. Thanks again all you Subaru Gurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I don't think you need any special tools to get at things in the rear housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadfootracin Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I repaired a 91 awd for binding, had a code for duty c sol, sol ohmed ok installed fuse no fix, checked pinouts at trans ecu no power to sol, replaced trans comp, all good. side note, this car was bought used and the prev owner had driven or towed this car in that condtion for so long that the rear diff had exploded and cought fire, scorch marks on the rear bumper should have been a clue. I reaplaced rear diff, mounting bushings, and fuel lines, car runs/drives awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyuunuuya Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 I repaired a 91 awd for binding, had a code for duty c sol, sol ohmed ok installed fuse no fix, checked pinouts at trans ecu no power to sol, replaced trans comp, all good. side note, this car was bought used and the prev owner had driven or towed this car in that condtion for so long that the rear diff had exploded and cought fire, scorch marks on the rear bumper should have been a clue. I reaplaced rear diff, mounting bushings, and fuel lines, car runs/drives awesome Very useful info thanks alot for the input. I'm cringing since from my past experiance computers in cars are very expensive. But I will definetly ohm out that solinoid and see if it's got any juice. Thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UuuPIT Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I've been told by Subaru never to run the car in 2wd mode. It is strictly for towing purposes, and can damage your tranny. Subaru doesn't even recommend using it for that either, strictly get a flatbed. Anyways my QUESTION is I disconnected the middle piece of the driveshaft since putting the 20 amp fuse into the FWD didn't seem to actually turn the car into 2WD mode since I'm guessing the clutch is welded together. Does anyone out there know enough about this to tell me wheather I'm running any kind of risk by taking out that piece of driveshaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 I've been told by Subaru never to run the car in 2wd mode. It is strictly for towing purposes, and can damage your tranny. Subaru doesn't even recommend using it for that either, strictly get a flatbed. The 2WD or FWD mode does absolutely nothing while towing because the engine is typically not on. You are NOT supposed to tow an automatic with the wheels on the ground. The reason being the oil pump that lubricates everything is run off the engine. The FWD fuse is supposed to be used when using the spare tire, and as a diagnostic tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer4775 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hello All, I've been following (and searching) posts on binding, which I have experienced on my wife’s 98 Legacy GT, and found many useful messages. After inserting a fuse in the FWD holder the problem went away which prompted me to check/change fluid in the front diff. So far the binding hasn’t returned (fuse removed). Tires are down to the wear indicators, which could have contributed and will be replaced in the near future. The threads have been a big help in trouble shooting this nuance. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Check your tires air pressure and size. Check your transmission fliud, if it is burnt or otherwise contaminated then replace it. Check the Codes. If still not able to solve it then plan on replacing the Clutch plates and seals/seal rings on the Transfer Clutch. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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