gotime242 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hey guys, im installing a new oil pan gasket. I just cleaned out the pan, cleaned off the contact surface real well, put a small amount of FIPG and the new gasket on. When i was bolting it back on, i realized that i need to know what to tq it too, since if i go to much its just going to split and push out the new gasket. So...what would be a good number to do this too? Even tightening them a little bit i can see the gasket push out just a hair, and i really dont want that to happen. What do you guys usually do? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I'd have to check the manual, but it's around 12 ft-lbs if I remember correctly. Which engine are we talking about? It shouldn't make a difference, but it might. Hey guys, im installing a new oil pan gasket. I just cleaned out the pan, cleaned off the contact surface real well, put a small amount of FIPG and the new gasket on. When i was bolting it back on, i realized that i need to know what to tq it too, since if i go to much its just going to split and push out the new gasket. So...what would be a good number to do this too? Even tightening them a little bit i can see the gasket push out just a hair, and i really dont want that to happen. What do you guys usually do? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 For EA82: 3.3-4.0 ft-lbs Oil-pan a(and ATF-pan) bolts should not be tightened much more than "snug", as they will warp the pan flange and squish out the gasket. and SNAP the bolts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotime242 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks guys. Yeah i didnt think it was much. I couldnt even get it to register on my torque wrench, so i ended up being safe and just using a screwdriver to tighten them, with that i could get them as snug/tight as possible but the gasket did not squish out at all, so that works for me! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBrumby Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 i think i did as tight as i could with small handled screwdriver then 1 turn more with ratchet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I Tried to torque down my oil pan bolts one time to spec, and i snapped 4 of them. just tighten them until they're snug! Use a good sealant for the gasket and you will have no problems. -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 what i like to do is thread them in by hand with a screwdriver, then about 1/8 to 1.4 turn with a 1/4" drive socket another trick i prefer to use is a cordless drill with a clutch, one that clicks at a certain torqie. with my cordless, 18v harbor freight model, the full torque of the drill is just perfect for the oil pan bolts also when snugged by nad, it would be a good idea to re-snug them after about 10,000 miles or so a lot of the leaky oil pans i see just a hand re-tightening fixes right up, being as the gasket will harden and shrink over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotime242 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 also when snugged by nad, it would be a good idea to re-snug them after about 10,000 miles or so Ah! Good suggestion! I will definetly do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 After 30 years of tightening 6mm bolts into aluminum, I have gotten pretty good at it. Even 1/4"-drive torque wrenches don't like 10 ft-lbs and below. Miles suggestion on rechecking tightness is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Haha. I didn't see the "INCH POUNDS" next to the "44" in my manual... I only snapped one oil pan bolt off in the motor before I realized how much of an idiot I was. I just get them tight as I can with a driver then a 1/4 turn with the rachy. (That's approx. 3.6 FT Lbs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 thats really good advice. i just took off the oil pan today. i need a new oil pump.those back 4 bolts are a real booger to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChasse Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks you guys! My pan was really hammered, so I pulled it (what a fun little puzzle!), straightened it, cleaned it, painted it, and re-installed. Underneath, whenever I remove something it gets cleaned and painted (even if sparkly silver is all I have at the time) before re-install. Most of you already know, but don't hurt to mention to only put gasket goop on the pan side. Cheers! Joe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 25 years of slow cooling reduces the strength of the steel bolts. That strength reduction causes them to break off inside the block, with what you might think to be normal torque. Buy new bolts or find some off of a low mileage vehicle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 25 years of slow cooling reduces the strength of the steel bolts. That strength reduction causes them to break off inside the block, with what you might think to be normal torque. Buy new bolts or find some off of a low mileage vehicle. Useless advice. a 200 degree engine is not hot enough to affect the strenght of these bolts. Besides.....how strong do they need to be to hold 4 ft/lbs........LOL I've reused 100's of oil pan bolts....... Hey guys, im installing a new oil pan gasket. I just cleaned out the pan, cleaned off the contact surface real well, put a small amount of FIPG and the new gasket on. When i was bolting it back on, i realized that i need to know what to tq it too, since if i go to much its just going to split and push out the new gasket. So...what would be a good number to do this too? Even tightening them a little bit i can see the gasket push out just a hair, and i really dont want that to happen. What do you guys usually do? I don't bother with the crappy cork gasket anymore. Relying on cork for gaskets is waiting to be let down. I seal the pan with "the Right Stuff" high grade RTV same as with EJ oil pans and 4EAT trans pans. Works great. Done it to EA81 and EA82 engines now. Besides.....cork trees are becomeing endangered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Useless advice. a 200 degree engine is not hot enough to affect the strenght of these bolts. Besides.....how strong do they need to be to hold 4 ft/lbs........LOL I've reused 100's of oil pan bolts....... I don't bother with the crappy cork gasket anymore. Relying on cork for gaskets is waiting to be let down. I seal the pan with "the Right Stuff" high grade RTV same as with EJ oil pans and 4EAT trans pans. Works great. Done it to EA81 and EA82 engines now. Besides.....cork trees are becomeing endangered. GLoyale would be better off qualifying his statement as his opinion. I learned from experience and now I have a couple of broken off bolts in my block, that occured with only normal tightening. I see that others report the same problem. So, does the reader learn from the experience of others, or the opinion of one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 GLoyale would be better off qualifying his statement as his opinion. Hmm.......Not sure why you think I'd be better off?......I'm fine.....you are the one breaking oil pan bolts and blaming it on "slow cooling"........g'me a break..... GLoyale would be better off qualifying his statement as his opinion. I learned from experience and now I have a couple of broken off bolts in my block, that occured with only normal tightening. I see that others report the same problem. So, does the reader learn from the experience of others, or the opinion of one? Well....let's see.....you are the "one" giving you're "opinion" getting new bolts for the oil pump. I represent 15+ years of owning and working on these particular vehichles we speak of. I have sealed more Subaru oil pans than you have posts. So ......yeah......you're right.....we should let people to decide whether to listen to "one persons opinion"........or the experience of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 this is a good topic for those like me that havent ever replaced a oil pan gasket. In Oz we have Nitrile rubber readily available. its 3mm thick. but expensive. worth it if you never need to replace a gasket again but I dont know if its the type of rubber you are talking about. Could also use it for the VW auto trans gasket also I reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudduck Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I can't say that I have ever broken a "slow cooked" bolt. Then again, how does one tell if the slow cooked bolt is done, or still cooking? And how abput deep fried bolts? Are they any easier to break, or are they stronger? I have in fact broken a bolt that had been "boiled", but I am about 100% sure that the failure in the bolt was not from "boiling". Baked bolts, I have busted and cut a few of them, again, not so much thye baking process, but from the rusting process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Most Bolts in Japanese Engine break because of Corrosion, When you break a bolt when undoing it unless some rock ape has been there before what generally is the cause is that the Engine was assembled in a high humidity environment and the trapped moisture and air due to the use of fast acting air tools on the assembly line allows corrosion to occurr with the result of bolt breakage at times when attempting to undo them. Come across it all to often and figured out why after talking to some factory engineers when I worked for Kawasaki Motors As for Cork gaskets they are OK if you use the following technique I always seal cork gaskets on one side only with a non setting sealant such as Hematite (The Blue Goop) then torque to manufacturers spec but make sure to use Loctite Nut locking compound that way they do not losen and I have sealed successfully plenty of straight six XK Jag motors with that method and they do not leak. Another tip I use was developed from working on Kawasaki KZ 900 and 1000 motors and Suzuki GS models these uses an expensive white hard type material that would always tear when removing them and at something approaching $40.00 aud for some models it got rather expensive doing valve checks, So I took a leaf out of Kawasaki's book with the later GpZ variants that had a Graphite type finish on the gasket that allowed multiple reuse. Any gasket that could be reused I coat with Molybdenum Di Sulfide Grease the same stuff used in CV joints, When the engine first heats up there may be some mess as the excess grease melts but when later removing the valve cover the gasket has what looks like an impregnated coating of Graphite on it and comes away clean with no tearing allowing it to be reused a few times. Silicone type sealants often allow a gasket to move and tear so I never use them if I can help it on Gaskets, If a gasket requires the use of a sealant then use something from Three bond as used by all Japanese manufacturers it will seal but the gasket will not slip under tightening torque and break. Edited March 30, 2014 by coxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Most Bolts in Japanese Engine break because of Corrosion, When you break a bolt when undoing it unless some rock ape has been there before what generally is the cause is that the Engine was assembled in a high humidity environment and the trapped moisture and air due to the use of fast acting air tools on the assembly line allows corrosion to occurr with the result of bolt breakage at times when attempting to undo them. Yeah.....but the posters in this thread are talking about breaking on torque down.......and breaking when reusing to reseal a pan. That too is often due to corrosion....but more often from the driving environment, salrt on roads.....etc....and of course overtightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Annealing is the softening of Carbon steel Edited March 30, 2014 by scoobiedubie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 what hppens is you get 'hillbilly torque' when you take the experienced hands of steel coarse thread bolts into iron bores, and apply that to fine thread steel bolts in aluminum bores. The smaller bolts in aluminum do not need as much initial torque than coarse thread becuse the tighter thread has a mechanical advantage and achieves clamping forces with less torque applied. this has more to do with thread pitch than it does application or matallurgy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Annealing is the softening of Carbon steel That's not annealing. It is not softening......it is even heating and slow cooling to not create stress zones in metal that has been worked, heated unevenly, reshaped or of varying thickness. The term also applies in the same way to Glass, Ceramics, and Precious metals and Gem setting. Annealing is the process of relieving strain and uneven packing of molecules within metal after welding/forging/bending or what have you. what hppens is you get 'hillbilly torque' when you take the experienced hands of steel coarse thread bolts into iron bores, and apply that to fine thread steel bolts in aluminum bores. The smaller bolts in aluminum do not need as much initial torque than coarse thread becuse the tighter thread has a mechanical advantage and achieves clamping forces with less torque applied. this has more to do with thread pitch than it does application or matallurgy +1 this is why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Gloyale helped me save my Loyale 12 years by showing how to change out main shaft front oil seal on FWD wagon 5spd trans. 150,000 miles later still running fine. Now I will take his advice on oil pan - no cork - just The Right Stuff. THANKS AGAIN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 There ya go !!! Ed Rach , we miss you brother ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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