synthetic oil

[ctstriper]

I have a 2005 Outback 2.5 limited and have been using synthetic oil since the first oil change. However, I noticed the car using about 1 1/2 qts every 4000 miles. I drive about 4000 miles per month, mostly interstate.

 

Is this normal with synthetic?

[FSTOUR]

NEVER USE SYNTHETIC UNTIL THE ENGINE IS FULLT BROKEN IN. THE SYNTH. DOES NOT ALLOW THE RINGS TO SEAT INTO THE CYLIDER WALLS.

I WOULD WAIT UNTIL 10-15,000 MILES BEFORE SWITHING TO SYNTH OIL.

JUST MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION.

 

 

I have a 2005 Outback 2.5 limited and have been using synthetic oil since the first oil change. However, I noticed the car using about 1 1/2 qts every 4000 miles.

 

Is this normal with synthetic?

[Smpol19]

I wouldn't worry too much about waiting to put synt. in, there are many cars that come from the factory with it now. 1.5q every 4,000 does seem like a lot. Make sure you are checking it when the car is cold or has been sitting a while, it took me almost a year of subaru driving to figure out that the dipstick reading can vary quite a bit depending on where and how long the car has been sitting. If it really losing that much, get it looked at and make sure everything is documented. My 2001 impreza has almost 100,000 miles and doesn't lose anything between 5-6,000 oilchanges with Mobil 1.

[friendly_jacek]

That is a lot of consumption in a new engine!

 

If I remember correctly, there was a similar thread couple of months ago. The ring seating thing is an old story and controversial. But there could be some truth in it though, especially since the boxer desigh is old. I would try a different oil for a time beeing, probably something in the range of heavy 30 (german syntec 0W30) or light 40 (rotella synthetic 5W40). If yours is naturaly aspirated, there is nothing wrong with quality dino oil, though.

[J Fritz]

I have a 2005 Outback 2.5 limited and have been using synthetic oil since the first oil change. However, I noticed the car using about 1 1/2 qts every 4000 miles. I drive about 4000 miles per month, mostly interstate.

 

Is this normal with synthetic?

 

I have used Mobil1 20 years or more in 3 Volvos and 3 Saturns and 1 Mazda. I started all around 10K miles and they all used virtually no oil between ANNUAL changes. I did replace filter @ 3-4K and made up the diff of the filter change. The Volvos succombed to rust between 200-300K but the engines were flawless.

 

This will probably freak the oil fanatics going 10-15K between changes, but I have a success at doing it. The Saturn even took virtually no make-up oil since it had a drop-in element filter and still uses no oil in 50K so far.

 

I just loaded up my "new" 2001 Impreza OBW w/ Mobil1 and expecting the same.

 

I am considering a switch to Amsoil, comments?

[Setright]

Stick with Mobil1 - i have strayed once or twice and not been happy. My Mobil1 history stretches 15 years back.

[blitz]

At your next oil change, try a good quality dino oil in the 12-13 cst. (high 30/low 40) range and see if that has a positive effect on your consumption.

 

I've read numerous complaints about specific individual sube motors having consumption problems when using Mobil 1 5W-30 & 10W-30 that went away after switching to a middle-weight dino oil. Having said that, most folks seem to be able to use Mobil 1 in their Sube without any consumption problems.

 

My observation is that Sube motors in general do better on lubes with a little more viscosity than the current trend of water-weight (8-9 cst.) oils.

[99obw]

Good advice Blitz, for info to help choose an oil in that viscosity range I find this thread helpful...

 

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009433

[friendly_jacek]

To add to the confusion, this is quoted from http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm

 

"Using synthetic-oil in engine break-ins

By Road & Track, Technical Correspondence Column, July 2000 issue

 

Many readers have questioned us on engine break-in procedures when using synthetic oil. Conventional wisdom has it that a new or freshly rebuilt engine should be broken in using mineral oil, then, once enough mileage has accumulated to ensure rings and cylinder walls have lapped themselves into harmony, synthetic oil can be used.

 

Readers have correctly pointed out that several major brands come from the factory with synthetic oil, among these being Corvette, Mercedes-Benz and Viper. How can these engines break-in if run on synthetic oil from day one, they ask?

 

To find out, we spoke with Mobil and Redline Oil companies for their take on the synthetic break-in question. Mobil's response was that engines break-in just fine on synthetics, and that any wear point in the engine significant enough to be an interference, and thus susceptible to rapid wear, would be a wear point no matter what lubricant is used.

 

Redline, on the other hand, has found it best to recommend a mineral oil break-in. Occasionally an engine will glaze its cylinder walls when initially run on Redline, they say, so by using a mineral oil for 2000 miles, verifying there is no oil consumption and then switching to the synthetic, glazing is eliminated.

 

Cylinder-wall glazing is not a deposit left on the cylinder wall, but rather a displacement of cylinder-wall metal. This happens when the high spots of the cylinder wall crosshatch are not cut or worn off by the piston rings, but rather rolled over into the valleys or grooves of the crosshatch. This leaves a surface that oil adheres to poorly, against which the rings cannot seal well. Compression is lost and oil consumed, and the only cure is to tear down the engine to physically restore the cylinder-wall finish by honing.

 

Why is glazing not a problem for the major manufacturer? Because they have complete, accurate control over their cylinder-wall finish and ring type. Redline deals with a huge variety of engines and manufacturers, both OEM and from the aftermarket. Cylinder-wall finish and ring type thus vary greatly, and glazing can therefore occur, albeit rarely.

 

While we were at it, we queried about synthetic oil-change intervals. Mobil says to use the maximum change interval specified by the engine manufacturer, regardless of oil type. Redline said that once past an OEM warranty, anywhere from 10,000 to 18,000 miles, or one year, whichever comes first, is appropriate depending on conditions (dust, short trips). They also recommend changing just the oil filter at 6000 to 7000 miles as a precaution against overloading the filter. Redline further noted a caution when using synthetics with leaded fuels, as synthetics do not hold lead in suspension as well as mineral oil. Aviation is one area where leaded fuel is still widespread, and avgas is often used by off-road and racing enthusiasts, so a relatively short oil change interval may thus be indicated."

[Tiny Clark]

BULLLSHHHHITTTT!

 

Do whatever you want. Modern engines use tapered rings, so break-in is not an issue.

 

So you spend 5 to 10 bucks between oil changes! Wow, that's a six-pack of a good locally brewed beer!!!

[Setright]

Come on! Piston ring seating takes place within the first few hundred revolutions a newly honed engine makes. Not thousands of miles.

 

The oil can't get in the way of high points left behind the by the stones of the honing machine. These have a tiny surface area and the pressure is too great for any oil to hang around.

[blitz]

I gotta agree with Setright.

 

Growing up in Detroit, I've been on tours of the auto plants. When that brand-new car comes off the end of the line, the porter jumps in, starts it up, slams it into gear, and promptly plants the throttle to the floor to park it out in that HUGE lot.

 

I distinctly remember a tour of the Ford plant in right around '74 and the sound of the screeching rubber of brand-new T-birds making a three point turn, drive - reverse - drive, then out the door at full throttle.

 

An import car gets subjected to a standing start rally run, first onto - then back off of a ferry.

 

Pretty amazing actually. At the time I recall thinking that the workers I saw appeared to be on Meth. They reminded of that "juice guy" on infomercials at 3AM.

[cookie]

an extra oil change or two does not hurt. If you are going to toss in an extra change dino is cheaper. On the BMW I gave it one extra change with BMW syn. It hurt the wallet but was good for the soul.

Since the M series engine requires synthetics due to the high oil temps it can make dino wasn't really an option.

When I broke my Merceds in after rebuilding it I did a couple of dino changes to get the hot tank and honing grunge out before running it on syn.

I am probably a bit conservative on this stuff, but I usually have good results.

[Setright]

Thanks Blitz!

 

 

Of course, I must point out that I don't thrash a cold engine, no matter how many miles. In the latest Subes it's easy too, no more than half-throttle or 4000rpm before the pistons stop SLAPPING!

 

[ctstriper]

NEVER USE SYNTHETIC UNTIL THE ENGINE IS FULLT BROKEN IN. THE SYNTH. DOES NOT ALLOW THE RINGS TO SEAT INTO THE CYLIDER WALLS.

I WOULD WAIT UNTIL 10-15,000 MILES BEFORE SWITHING TO SYNTH OIL.

JUST MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION.

 

Any problem going back to dino for another 4K? The car has 16K on it now.

[blitz]

Thanks Blitz!

 

 

Of course, I must point out that I don't thrash a cold engine, no matter how many miles. In the latest Subes it's easy too, no more than half-throttle or 4000rpm before the pistons stop SLAPPING!

 

Roger that. My intent was to point out the treatment a virgin vehicle receives gets before it ever gets to dealer prep. Most folks don't know what those 8 miles/13 Km on the odometer really represent. The initial "seat-in" of the rings IS DONE. Over the next 20K miles or so, definitely the friction will continue to decrease and fuel mileage will increase as the long-term wear-in (wear-out ) continues.

 

I actually tried the whole "controlled" break-in on my 2.5, I used dino for a while before switching to synth, but it slaps anyway. The 2.5's just do it ...no worries. It's the short piston with ring-pack & wrist-pin pushed up high. The moly coat masks the noise, but as it wears away the noise emerges.

[Setright]

Yeah, with the moly coating still intact, the slap sounds like gurgling in the cabin heater. My EJ20 was doing this when I got it at 40k miles, now a further 40k miles down the line it's pure metallic slap.

 

If I have people in the car when the engine is cold I like to say "Hey, have you heard my Impreza Diesel?" and open the throttle a bit.

[friendly_jacek]

Any problem going back to dino for another 4K? The car has 16K on it now.

 

Unless you have a hi performance turbo motor, start car in arctic temps, or have an engine with high oil temp (corvette or similar), good dino oil (like ACEA A3 certified) is more than fine.

[howards11]

My mechanic started using a synth blend. 76 brand. It's from the same company (ConocoPhillips) that makes:

 

Phillips 66

Kendell

76

Ford Motorcraft

 

The good news is he's not charging anymore for an oil change than when he used dino oil.

 

~Howard

[friendly_jacek]

My mechanic started using a synth blend. 76 brand. It's from the same company (ConocoPhillips) that makes:

 

Phillips 66

Kendell

76

Ford Motorcraft

 

The good news is he's not charging anymore for an oil change than when he used dino oil.

 

~Howard

 

The new API SM certification requires for 5W30 oils to use higher quality base oils (at the expense of additive pack). Many companies started adding group 3 semisynthetic oil to the cheap group 1 dino. This type of oil is usually marketed as standard dino oil (MobilExon for example) but some companies you mentioned above chose to market them as "blend". It is a marketing gimmic.

Other companies use group 2 or group 2+ oils (chevron or so). Pick and choose.

[howards11]

The new API SM certification requires for 5W30 oils to use higher quality base oils (at the expense of additive pack). Many companies started adding group 3 semisynthetic oil to the cheap group 1 dino. This type of oil is usually marketed as standard dino oil (MobilExon for example) but some companies you mentioned above chose to market them as "blend". It is a marketing gimmic.

Other companies use group 2 or group 2+ oils (chevron or so). Pick and choose.

 

I'm confused. :-\

 

Is this stuff bad for my engine ?

 

~Howard

[blitz]

I'm confused. :-\

 

Is this stuff bad for my engine ?

 

~Howard

No, the base oils are better because the newer SM standards require greater resistance to oxidation along with a reduction of catcon-killing adds (ZPPP).

 

In a nutshell: semi-synth used to be a ripoff ...now it's a bargain.

 

Revised PCMO standards have implied backward-compatibility (for use with earlier vehicles).

[friendly_jacek]

I'm confused. :-\

 

Is this stuff bad for my engine ?

 

~Howard

 

Sorry for the confusing statement. No, it is not bad. The thing is that you shouldn't think that these new "blend" oils are any better than the other regular oils with the API SM certification.

 

There is one more thing I remember from braking in my 2003 Corolla that may have a bearing on the discussion here. The engine was wery noisy from a factory (a common complaint for that car). The noise decreased slowly after 5000 miles and it took more like 20000 miles to quiet the engine. Obviously, toyota is different from Subaru, but what I am saying is that the engine brake-in process can take much longer than some believe.

[wolfy]

My 2003 Forester uses a bit of mobil1 too. But where is it going? Out the pipe?

It's not going down.

 

-M

[friendly_jacek]

My 2003 Forester uses a bit of mobil1 too. But where is it going? Out the pipe?

It's not going down.

 

-M

 

Some people would say that synthetic oil is so slippery that it slides past the oil rings. My take is different, Mobil 1 5W30 and 10W30 oils are in the low range of viscosity for 30 oils. Try something thicker (with higher HTHS) than that.