head gasket vs. new engine on 99 outback

[melissa218]

I might have to replace the head gasket on my 99 outback with 165000 miles on it. This might be a dumb question but does anyone have a guestimate as to what a new engine might cost vs. the cost of replacing the head gasket.

[q240z]

I've been looking around. Figure somewhere between $1700-$2500 for an engine swap, unless you know somebody in the biz. If you do it yourself, figure $1000, minimum.

 

Head gasket sets run $150 and up for everything you need to freshen up the top end, minus labor. Google Rock Auto for parts.

[Peter Parker]

Your lucky you got that many miles before this happened. My 99 only got 74,000 before the gaskets gave way. According to my machanic, the 96-99 2.5 were notorious for this problem because the factory installed gaskets did not have an etched surface (grabs the head better and prevents slippage).

Anyway, he said about 3,500 to 4,000 (prices may vary, this is Alaska after all) for a shortblock or the 2,000 for a rebuild. I went with the rebuild but that also included many extras like a new timing belt, head shaving, rollers, etc. that he found to be worn out.

Hope this helps.

[Grimmreaper]

If the only problem is a head gasket, then it would be cheaper to replace the gasket rather than a new engine. I do not know what area you live in or what kind of repair shops are around but I think the cost should be around $1,000 to $1,500.

 

I have a 97 Outback with the same blown head gaskets with my engine at 156,000 miles at the time. I thought about a new engine, but the cost for one is around $5,000. In my case I warped my heads and wound up replacing the heads, all the engine gaskets, water pump, thermostat, plugs, timing belt, and water hoses, I went ahead and replaced the radiator and clutch assembly at the same time since the engine was all torn apart with the total cost being $3,000.

 

It was worth it for me since I do not think I could have gotten an equivelant car for $3,000. It has been over a Year since I have done all the work on my outback, but it continues to run great and I expect to get another 100,00 miles minimum out of it.

[melissa218]

I've been looking around. Figure somewhere between $1700-$2500 for an engine swap, unless you know somebody in the biz. If you do it yourself, figure $1000, minimum.

 

Head gasket sets run $150 and up for everything you need to freshen up the top end, minus labor. Google Rock Auto for parts.

 

Are you saying $1700-2500 for a new engine including labor??? I was quoted around $1500 for the head gasket work. Am I getting ripped off???

[tomson1355]

Melissa,

 

A "new" engine would be several thousand dollars more. The price quoted is for a used engine, which might or might not have had its head gaskets replaced, and might or might not have been well maintained.

 

If your engine runs well, doesn't burn oil, and has seen regular oil changes, then the cheapest and easiest thing for you to do is to have the head gaskets replaced. The $1500 price tag is typical of a Subaru dealer. You may be able to have it done for less at an independent shop that caters to Subarus.

 

Good luck.

 

Tom

[Grimmreaper]

$1500 is about right for head gasket work.

[cookie]

and shop to shop. That is less than I paid for my head gasket job, but here in CA things are expensive.

Some independents are much cheaper than dealer work.

In this area I think an engine change would cost at least $4,000, but would be quite satisfying.

Just around here you could get great variations in price, for example installing a used or JDM engine might be far cheaper than a dealer or up market indie rebuild. There are also small corner shops that might do jobs quite cheaply.

I was willing to pay more for my head gasket job to ensure the mechanic knew Subarus.

I would expect to pay $1200 to $2,000 around here because there are things you should do at the same time.

water pump

timing belt

check heads and valve job if necessary

tensioner

reseal oil pump

crank seal

If you do those the front of the engine should not require more service as long as you own it. You can save money by leaving any of these out, but do you really save in the long run?

[q240z]

Are you saying $1700-2500 for a new engine including labor??? I was quoted around $1500 for the head gasket work. Am I getting ripped off???

A key point on my post was the "minus labor" part. If you aren't willing or able to dig into the job yourself, $1500 might be a very fair price for head gaskets and other related parts.

I've gotten price quotes for $1000-1650 for used engines from 2002 and up USDM cars with less than 50k miles on them. I haven't been able to find any JDM engine suppliers nearby who carry Subi. But I recently replaced the engine in my '94 Honda Accord with a JDM unit. It was $795 for the engine only. I do my own work.

[melissa218]

A key point on my post was the "minus labor" part. If you aren't willing or able to dig into the job yourself, $1500 might be a very fair price for head gaskets and other related parts.

I've gotten price quotes for $1000-1650 for used engines from 2002 and up USDM cars with less than 50k miles on them. I haven't been able to find any JDM engine suppliers nearby who carry Subi. But I recently replaced the engine in my '94 Honda Accord with a JDM unit. It was $795 for the engine only. I do my own work.

 

it isn't that i am not willing. it just isn't feasible for me to replace an engine. i just got an update from the shop where my car is being assessed. they don't think i need a head gasket. they think it is the water pump. i guess i'll let them replace that and see how it goes. i am not very optimistic. from everything i have heard i am due for head gasket issues.

[cookie]

At this poin the water pump may very well show weeping signs. I am sure it is due to be replaced anyway. The problem is that may not fix the car. If they are willing to work with you and not charge you twice for this job, fair enough.

[Strakes]

I have no idea the difference between the head gasket replacement cost, and a rebuilt motor with a warranty would be. However, a lot of people on this board recommend

 

http://www.ccrengines.com/

[tomson1355]

BY the time they replace the water pump they are halfway (well, almost) there to replacing head gaskets. If your car is overheating, the overflow tank fills up and vomits, the coolant looks discolored at best, bubbles come up through the coolant in the overflow tank, and the coolant in the overflow tank doesn't return to a normal level when the car cools, you almost certainly have bad head gaskets. It's classic in these engines, and if your shop can't figure it out without replacing the water pump unnecessarily, I'd take it elsewhere.

 

Tom

[melissa218]

BY the time they replace the water pump they are halfway (well, almost) there to replacing head gaskets. If your car is overheating, the overflow tank fills up and vomits, the coolant looks discolored at best, bubbles come up through the coolant in the overflow tank, and the coolant in the overflow tank doesn't return to a normal level when the car cools, you almost certainly have bad head gaskets. It's classic in these engines, and if your shop can't figure it out without replacing the water pump unnecessarily, I'd take it elsewhere.

 

Tom

 

they have tested coolant for exhaust gases and done several other tests and aren't finding any indication of blown head gaskets. they said coolant is not circulating through system properly that is why they think it is the water pump. he said he won't know definitively if it is the water pump until they take the old one off and examine it. i trust this guy but i am with you. i have a feeling it is the head gasket even though they haven't been able to diagnose the problem as such.

[cookie]

if the waterpump is really bad when they get it apart. It has to go anyway by me. The exhaust gas in the coolant may not show up until the gasket gets fairly bad.

It is actually sort of a good sign if it does not, as this means you are getting a gasket fixed before too much damage has been done. These things seal up when they cool down when the gasket just starts to go. I have never seen any car act like a Subaru.

[tomson1355]

The head gaskets make it appear as if it's a circulation problem because the gasses displace the coolant. Water pumps and radiators have been replaced galore on these cars when what they needed was head gaskets. The gas test does not always pick it up. Does your overflow tank get over full and spit out coolant? Does the coolant not return to the system as the car cools down? If yes, bet them a water pump job that it's head gaskets.

 

Tom

[melissa218]

if the waterpump is really bad when they get it apart. It has to go anyway by me. The exhaust gas in the coolant may not show up until the gasket gets fairly bad.

It is actually sort of a good sign if it does not, as this means you are getting a gasket fixed before too much damage has been done. These things seal up when they cool down when the gasket just starts to go. I have never seen any car act like a Subaru.

 

i'm not getting the gasket fixed at this point because the mechanic isn't telling me i need to. he says he can't find anything to indicate i have a blown head gasket. i don't know what to do. i guess i'll see what happens after they replace the water pump?????

[Scottbaru]

What's your car worth? I'd guess $4000 to $5000 if it's in overall good shape. If it's running well you could sell it, maybe take a hit for a possible problem. The gasket job might cost $1500, but there are often other issues that crop up, so expect a little more. It's usually wise to do some preventative mainenance while you're in there on an engine of that mileage. There are plenty of good deals on lower mileage cars, interest rates are still good, I'd sell it.

[lmdew]

Sell it to me, I have a 99 engine that needs a home!

[q240z]

Imdew, I have a '97 that might need an engine. You lookin' to sell yours?

[melissa218]

What's your car worth? I'd guess $4000 to $5000 if it's in overall good shape. If it's running well you could sell it, maybe take a hit for a possible problem. The gasket job might cost $1500, but there are often other issues that crop up, so expect a little more. It's usually wise to do some preventative mainenance while you're in there on an engine of that mileage. There are plenty of good deals on lower mileage cars, interest rates are still good, I'd sell it.

 

WHEN I FIRST HEARD THAT I MIGHT HAVE A HEAD GASKET PROBLEM MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS TO SELL THE CAR. THEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT ALL OF THE WORK I HAVE DONE ON THE CAR IN THE PAST YEAR OR SO AND DECIDED THAT WAS A HASTY DECISION. ALSO, THIS IS THE NICEST CAR IN OUR FLEET. OUR OTHER TWO CARS ARE A 1995 GEO PRIZM AND 1987 CHEVY CAVALIER. I FIGURE I SHOULD PROBABLY THINK ABOUT REPLACING ONE OF THOSE BEFORE I JUMP THE GUN AND GET RID OF THE SUBARU.

[Skanky]

Im in the same predicament. A few days ago my 98 2.5 RS started to overheat. The coolant had black stuff floating in it and it was overflowing. I had researched the vehicle before I bought it, and found that the 2.5L engine is known for head gasket problems. I took it to a local shop. The mechanic there, told me that subarus are not known for blowing head gaskets and that there is no way that is the problem. He replaced the thermostat and gave it back to me a couple of days later. Yesterday the same thing happened again. Unfortunatly I took it back to the same place(i didnt have much of a choice, it broke down in front of the shop). I read a whole lot of posts on this site relating to my problem. All of which point to the head gasket. Im a student and im pretty much broke. I do have a job............delivering pizza, so i guess technically I dont have a job anymore.

 

This really is a no-win situation.

[cookie]

was the great luck my relatives in New Zealand have with them. I didn't know about the 2.5 head gasket problem until I found this board. Folks here advised me to get a phase 2 which I did.

Of course I did replace the gaskets on my phase 2 also, but if I had waited Subaru came out with a "sort of" fix for the phase 2.

I feel sorry for you guys and maybe you could form a head gasket support group.

[Grimmreaper]

Well everyone has their situation with regards to keeping their car or selling it and having a good reputable mechanic who knows their way around a Subaru engine is critical to the decision making process. (I have a 97 Outback with 164,000 miles on it)

 

I went to a non-dealership that does high performance work since they had a certified subaru mechanic (with 15+ years experiance on Subarus).

 

What they said was that due to the headgaskets leaking by which then put an air-bubble in the engine and the subsequent overheating it caused was a misalignment of the heads which pushed the heads outside the factory tolerance levels. The Mechanic informed me that about 70 percent of subaru engines will have a warped head if the temperature boils over for anything over 5 minutes or so, he then proved it to me by showing the head with a gage used to monitor levelness of the heads.

 

What makes it so expensive is replacing all the seals, gaskets, plugs, thermostat, timing belt, water pump, and cleaning out radiator (I cannot remeber the rest).

 

Basically what they said was that whenever the head gaskets leak and if the engine overheats, there is no real sure fire way of verifying that the coolant system or any other gaskets/seals were not effected by this and it is cheaper in the longrun to replace all that stuff now.

 

I have been running for about a year after the work was completed and it feels like a new engine, so for me at least it was a good move to get the work done. But the cost was $2900 (that includes the replacement of the clutch and radiator)

 

I know its expensive and the only way I justified it to myself was to decide if I wanted to fix it or settle with car payments again.

 

I hope this helps

[cookie]

That was pretty much what I had done to the engine of my Subie shortly after I got it. As an ex mechanic I like to keep everything as well serviced as possible. My radiator was in good shape so I left that, but it got clutch, that stupid plastic oil slinger, all seals, all belts, tensioner, water pump, and the front exhaust replaced.

The joy is that the car runs like new and does not drip a drop of oil or coolant even after a several hundred mile trip. The pain is paying for the job.

The other joy is there are no car payments and I am very sure that I will get at least another 100,000 miles out of the car.