q240z Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I've posted here recently about a '97 OBW I picked up for $1200. It has 140k on it and was not running well at all, the CEL was on all the time, sometimes flashing. The previous owner took it to an indie shop as well as a dealer. Both places diagnosed the problem as "blown cylinder." I checked around online, found you good people here, and also found references to bad plug wires causing similar problems. I pulled the plugs this morning--one of them had a seriously broken insulator and all of the wires had evidence of carbon tracking in the boot. The resistance was well within tolerance and the parts store nearby didn't have replacement wires, so I cleaned out the carbon and tossed them back on the car. After pulling the battery cables to zero the CEL, the results are: No more CEL No more engine shaking around like a pissed off rodeo bull For the price of a spark plug, I seem to have fixed the problem. I also discovered that the whistling sound I was hearing came from the air cleaner housing. The ace mechanics who replaced the air filter who knows when lost one of the two clips that holds the housing together. They just left it loose, so unfiltered air had a direct route into the engine. The whistling sound was just the sound of the intake. How the hell can mechanics and dealers charge money for this crappy service? How the hell could a guy diagnose a problem as "blown cylinder" when the more immediate problem is a broken spark plug? One thing does remain, though. There is a ticking sound that sounds like it's coming from deep within the engine. It could be coming from under the timing covers, but it absolutely is not from valves out of adjustment. The heads are quiet. I can't see any evidence of an exhaust leak, but need to spend some more time under the car to be sure. I've heard about a piston slap problem with these 2.5 liter DOHC engines. Anybody know how that manifests itself? Is it a terminal problem or just one of those wacky Subi things that everybody suffers through and tolerates because otherwise the cars are just freakin' awesome? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I've posted here recently about a '97 OBW I picked up for $1200. It has 140k on it and was not running well at all, the CEL was on all the time, sometimes flashing. The previous owner took it to an indie shop as well as a dealer. Both places diagnosed the problem as "blown cylinder." I checked around online, found you good people here, and also found references to bad plug wires causing similar problems. I pulled the plugs this morning--one of them had a seriously broken insulator and all of the wires had evidence of carbon tracking in the boot. The resistance was well within tolerance and the parts store nearby didn't have replacement wires, so I cleaned out the carbon and tossed them back on the car. After pulling the battery cables to zero the CEL, the results are:No more CEL No more engine shaking around like a pissed off rodeo bull For the price of a spark plug, I seem to have fixed the problem. I also discovered that the whistling sound I was hearing came from the air cleaner housing. The ace mechanics who replaced the air filter who knows when lost one of the two clips that holds the housing together. They just left it loose, so unfiltered air had a direct route into the engine. The whistling sound was just the sound of the intake. How the hell can mechanics and dealers charge money for this crappy service? How the hell could a guy diagnose a problem as "blown cylinder" when the more immediate problem is a broken spark plug? One thing does remain, though. There is a ticking sound that sounds like it's coming from deep within the engine. It could be coming from under the timing covers, but it absolutely is not from valves out of adjustment. The heads are quiet. I can't see any evidence of an exhaust leak, but need to spend some more time under the car to be sure. I've heard about a piston slap problem with these 2.5 liter DOHC engines. Anybody know how that manifests itself? Is it a terminal problem or just one of those wacky Subi things that everybody suffers through and tolerates because otherwise the cars are just freakin' awesome? Cheers. great work! I THINK the ticking will be either the TB tensioner or , 'possibly' piston slap. Try searching the forum. carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 How the hell can mechanics and dealers charge money for this crappy service? I'll tell you how; too few people make a big enough stink about getting burned. There's a growing reluctance to hold professionals to a high standard. I say "out the shysters" ...ultimately it's your own rump roast your protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I'll tell you how; too few people make a big enough stink about getting burned. There's a growing reluctance to hold professionals to a high standard. I say "out the shysters" ...ultimately it's your own rump roast your protecting. It's the people who are 'picky' and who complain that help ALL of us. I am still very reluctant to complain - but do so more as I've gotten older. Often, an anonymous letter to a comapny will help with certain types of issues, or asking to speak with a manager, always get people's names, be willing to admit YOU may be wrong - but ask them how THEY would feel in your position, etc. Sometimes just getting their attention is difficult, but often - if you present it as a challenge - most folks will come through for you. maybe the OBDII is making folks lazy! I dunno Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 q240z, I'm with you. But look at the great deal you got on the OBW because some "certified" mechanic has a hard time with diagnosis. Way to go! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Good work Q240z. Don't give up on all the shops. There are a lot of good techs out there. You just need to find where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkoepp Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I only go to dealerships or major shops that appear well equipped and here's some things I've discovered when I brought a car home from a shop (no subarus): oil filler cap left off (car smoked until I found the cap lying there) heater hose left off (cost me a tow job) battery caps left off smog hose left off spark plugs not even finger tight (amazing that I got home) tools left on the engine (so cheap I tossed them) ignition left dangling (saw that before taking the car) oil spilled on engine top (I keep a really clean engine bay) Those are the shops I don't return to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spokane-Pete Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Fantastic. Good on you. Reminds me of an MG Midget story a friend of mine owned. Bought it cheap at auction because of very low oil pressure and external oil leaks. Guess what it really was!? Mechanical oil pressure gauge sender line heading to the dash gauge. Line leaked causing apparent low reading on the gauge, and the oil leak of course was just the broken oil line leaking all over the engine. Replaced the line and voila, instant oil pressure! Peter S I've posted here recently about a '97 OBW I picked up for $1200. It has 140k on it and was not running well at all, the CEL was on all the time, sometimes flashing. The previous owner took it to an indie shop as well as a dealer. Both places diagnosed the problem as "blown cylinder." I checked around online, found you good people here, and also found references to bad plug wires causing similar problems. I pulled the plugs this morning--one of them had a seriously broken insulator and all of the wires had evidence of carbon tracking in the boot. The resistance was well within tolerance and the parts store nearby didn't have replacement wires, so I cleaned out the carbon and tossed them back on the car. After pulling the battery cables to zero the CEL, the results are:No more CEL No more engine shaking around like a pissed off rodeo bull For the price of a spark plug, I seem to have fixed the problem. I also discovered that the whistling sound I was hearing came from the air cleaner housing. The ace mechanics who replaced the air filter who knows when lost one of the two clips that holds the housing together. They just left it loose, so unfiltered air had a direct route into the engine. The whistling sound was just the sound of the intake. How the hell can mechanics and dealers charge money for this crappy service? How the hell could a guy diagnose a problem as "blown cylinder" when the more immediate problem is a broken spark plug? One thing does remain, though. There is a ticking sound that sounds like it's coming from deep within the engine. It could be coming from under the timing covers, but it absolutely is not from valves out of adjustment. The heads are quiet. I can't see any evidence of an exhaust leak, but need to spend some more time under the car to be sure. I've heard about a piston slap problem with these 2.5 liter DOHC engines. Anybody know how that manifests itself? Is it a terminal problem or just one of those wacky Subi things that everybody suffers through and tolerates because otherwise the cars are just freakin' awesome? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Alot of shops have gotten lazy. Thye just plug in the scna tool and take that for its word. They forget the old rule of KISS (keep it simple stupid). Check the obvious and simple first. The puters are not smart, they just say what isnt working. A broken spark plug wire is a dead cylinder to the computer, and the tech read it as a blown cylinder, as oppsed to a dead cylinder. A dead cylinder can mean a bad plug, bad wire....all the way to blown piston. I try to find my mechanics by looking for a gear head that has a car with a carb. This meens he at least understands the basic principles of an engine operation, and hopefully wont assume the worst when the scantool says something like "dead cylinder" nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 before i let a shop touch my car I go through and watch them work, then see who is working, and I ask them exactly what they will do etc.. most shops are full of idiots. I pretty much do everything for work on my cars. things like rebuilding trannies and what not I leave to the shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q240z Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 I'm with you on that, n16ht5. I'm pretty much game for anything mechanical except auto trans problems, AC system evac & recharge, and alignment. The latter two I don't do because it's not worth investing in the equipment. I've done a couple of broomstick, string, and measuring tape alignments and the results weren't too bad, but I could never get the steering wheel centered. I guess auto trannies are the only things that really scare me. I usually ride my bike into work, but storms are on the way this afternoon (@#$%&*@ east coast summers) so I drove the Subi. Halfway in, the CEL came back on! D'oh! I spoke too soon! The car performs a ton better than it did. It drives nice and has plenty of power, but something in there isn't working 100%. I'll toss it on a scanner and see what codes pop up later today. I seem to remember life being easier in the days of points, carbs, and leaded gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I'm with you on that, n16ht5. I'm pretty much game for anything mechanical except auto trans problems, AC system evac & recharge, and alignment. The latter two I don't do because it's not worth investing in the equipment. I've done a couple of broomstick, string, and measuring tape alignments and the results weren't too bad, but I could never get the steering wheel centered. I guess auto trannies are the only things that really scare me. I usually ride my bike into work, but storms are on the way this afternoon (@#$%&*@ east coast summers) so I drove the Subi. Halfway in, the CEL came back on! D'oh! I spoke too soon! The car performs a ton better than it did. It drives nice and has plenty of power, but something in there isn't working 100%. I'll toss it on a scanner and see what codes pop up later today. I seem to remember life being easier in the days of points, carbs, and leaded gas. Yeah, cars now are like the ECUs in them - binary. They work or they quit. At least with the old stuff, you could kinda tell weeks before hand when a 'tune up' was gonna be needed. And you could fix the car on the side of the road with crap you had in your pocket or in you rgirlfriends purse or from some part of the car not critical (wire from the horn circuit for instance). Still, having a scanner and some sensors makes it better. i guess the worst period was the late 80s or so - blinky lights and cr @ p. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C130fixer Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I've posted here recently about a '97 OBW I picked up for $1200. It has 140k on it and was not running well at all, the CEL was on all the time, sometimes flashing. The previous owner took it to an indie shop as well as a dealer. Both places diagnosed the problem as "blown cylinder." I checked around online, found you good people here, and also found references to bad plug wires causing similar problems. I pulled the plugs this morning--one of them had a seriously broken insulator and all of the wires had evidence of carbon tracking in the boot. The resistance was well within tolerance and the parts store nearby didn't have replacement wires, so I cleaned out the carbon and tossed them back on the car. After pulling the battery cables to zero the CEL, the results are:No more CEL No more engine shaking around like a pissed off rodeo bull For the price of a spark plug, I seem to have fixed the problem. I also discovered that the whistling sound I was hearing came from the air cleaner housing. The ace mechanics who replaced the air filter who knows when lost one of the two clips that holds the housing together. They just left it loose, so unfiltered air had a direct route into the engine. The whistling sound was just the sound of the intake. How the hell can mechanics and dealers charge money for this crappy service? How the hell could a guy diagnose a problem as "blown cylinder" when the more immediate problem is a broken spark plug? One thing does remain, though. There is a ticking sound that sounds like it's coming from deep within the engine. It could be coming from under the timing covers, but it absolutely is not from valves out of adjustment. The heads are quiet. I can't see any evidence of an exhaust leak, but need to spend some more time under the car to be sure. I've heard about a piston slap problem with these 2.5 liter DOHC engines. Anybody know how that manifests itself? Is it a terminal problem or just one of those wacky Subi things that everybody suffers through and tolerates because otherwise the cars are just freakin' awesome? Cheers. I agree, it is stupid how places can charge such high prices for the work they do, or don't do!!! I had taken my Subaru to a Subaru dealer here in Utah for my seatbelt problem and he would not even get out from behind his desk. I had a Mercury Sable wagon that was diagnosed with a blown head gasket, cracked or warped head from the Ford dealer here in town. I took the car to an indie guy I know and he spent a week chasing the problem that turned out to be just a burned up sensor for the cooling fan. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shimonmor Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I agree with you that most mechanics out there are lazy and/or stupid. Just so happens that I am a mechanic (but I don't consider myself as lazy or stupid). I would never just drop off my vehicles at a shop. I do everything myself except for certain jobs. Like I needed the tranny rebuilt on our Sube so I went around to a couple of shops and talked to the service managers and mechanics. I asked a lot of questions that I knew the answers to so that I could gauge their BS level. Once I found someone I trusted and had confidence in I let them do the job. When I got it back everything was good so I let the guy know he did a great job and that I would be back to him if I ever needed any tranny work. Easier said than done but you gotta find someone you trust and stick with them. We have a lot customers at our shop who will only have certain mechanics work on their boat because they know them. I have my "customers" and other mechanics have their "customers" and then there are those customers who don't care...they just want it done cheaply. Always try to talk to the mechainc who will be working on your vehicle. It makes it more personal and they are more likely to see you as a person rather than as just another customer. Ask them questions and give them feedback. If things turn out ok...call the mechanic's manager to let them know they did a good job. Mechanics like it when the boss comes out and says some customer called and said you did a great job. On the flip side don't be afraid to call up and complain if something is wrong...constructive and rational feedback is essential to building a good customer/mechanic relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Never forget that alot of mechanics try to pull one over one the customer..tell them something major is wrong when its just something stupid....just to make more money. Plus if you think about it...not too many people want to or like to work on thier own cars. Especially the newer ones. I know that as a fact..I have been working on cars since I was little....old muscle cars and such..I open a hood on anything newer and get completely confused. I have been toying with going with a newer Subaru but keep turning back to my old ones just cause they are so much easier to work on and seem to be made to last more than the newer ones.But I still wouldnt mind a Baja or an Imperza Outback Sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawsonmh15 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 If you DO decide to trust mechanics again, here's a good place to start. Also, if you're in need of a part that doesn't neccessarily need to be new, I don't think you'll beat their prices. Especially if you live in CO. Picked up passenger side weather stripping in perfect condition for $35. Closest to that was NEW and $175. They threw in a new MAF sensor filter for free. http://www.superrupair.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 My car has a ticking noise from the converter...just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q240z Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 My car has a ticking noise from the converter...just an idea. HA! Are there any parts on these damned Subis that don't make ticking noises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 the ashtray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 the ashtray? My ashtray ticks. It may have something to do with the small metal parts I put in it though. . . I have no other use for the ashtray besides small item storage. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad/soo Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 all of your stories remindes me of my car, 92 legacy. my uncke bought this car for 450$, the guy said"the fuel is leaking", so i come back to the states, take a look at the car, POS, the fuel lines were rusted out, called few shops,"300%$ for the parts, 500$ for the job",hehe, i've spend 15$ at my local NAPA, 1 hour of labour, just one hour,... the car was standing for 1.5 year, and i got it running in 2 days,i've put on it like 2000 miles just in one month, backyard mechanicks, keep the good work, take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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