n16ht5 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 ok the 98 2.2 leaks.. with 89,000 mi. ? what do you guys think? :-\ I haven't really driven anything under 200k, so I am used to oil everywhere and thinks making noises.. but this thing is new to me. and I have never seena timing belt in my life (all american motors).. uhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 The cam, crankshaft, oil pump seals? I will pull the cover of the t belt and take a good look tomrorow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 At 89K, it might be a bit early to see actual oil leaks, but with a Subaru, you never know. Check the power steering pump: there's an o-ring on it that's famous for failing. It's quite probable that what you're seeing is ATF from there. For the amount you're leaking, I wouldn't worry too much about it yet. Just keep an eye on your oil level, as usual. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Outback Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 It's your cam seals, and maybe your crank seal. The oil pump bolts can loosen also. No big deal. When you do your timing belt at 90K they take only a few extra minutes to replace and tighten. Most places would probably only charge for the parts, and maybe a little labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 thanks buys. how hard is a t-belt and the seals to do? I have looked around on here but I still don't know. I am fairly competent at taking things apart (I have done an axle swap,) although I have not done engine work or touched a T belt. I bought the car the other day from a dealer, they cleaned it up well before I bought it and I couldn't fit under to see where it was coming out, I should have taken more time . I really didn't expect oil leaks from this new of a car, and I didn't see anything on the ground . ignorance is bliss right? I am thinking of taking it to the dealer and giving them a hard time, what would you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 thanks buys. how hard is a t-belt and the seals to do? I have looked around on here but I still don't know. I am fairly competent at taking things apart (I have done an axle swap,) although I have not done engine work or touched a T belt. I bought the car the other day from a dealer, they cleaned it up well before I bought it and I couldn't fit under to see where it was coming out, I should have taken more time . I really didn't expect oil leaks from this new of a car, and I didn't see anything on the ground . ignorance is bliss right? I am thinking of taking it to the dealer and giving them a hard time, what would you say? If you got this car from a Subaru dealer, you might approach them with something like; "Hey, guys - I KNOW you didn't INTEND to sell me a car riddled with oil leaks but that's what I got. maybe you could cut me some slack on replacing some seals if I decide to let you guys do the timing belt that's coming up soon." Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 ok the 98 2.2 leaks.. with 89,000 mi. ? what do you guys think? :-\ Well, quite honestly I think you should have checked more carefully before plonking down your cash. That said, I don't think it's the end of the world. It is a Subie after all! And it sounds like you've done enough wrenching to not be totally afraid of getting into the engine a bit. You really do need to replace the timing belt anyway, so it's a perfect time to replace crank and cam seals and reseal the oil pump. Might even want to replace the valve cover seals too. First, check what emily suggested--it'd be great if the problem is simply fluid coming from the power steering pump. Second, do a thorough search here on the forums. Timing belt and seal replacement are topics that have been covered in fantastic detail. Third, as 1 Lucky Texan suggested--go back to where you bought the car immediately and show them what they sold you. If they're honorable they might help you out--if they're not, well at least you'll know and you can let them know that you won't hesitate to tell your friends! At any rate, don't panic and don't beat yourself up too much. It's a Subie. It can be fixed--and with a little elbow grease from you, reasonably too. Aloha, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 okay thanks guys. yeah I feel really smart for not seeing the leaks.. excitement in finding a nice looking obs made me jump on it :-\ . well I will take it to the dealer, and next week I suppose I'll tackle the seals and timing belt. Thanks for all the help. if you have any more advice please let me know chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 When you say "the dealer," do you mean a Subaru dealership? If that's the case you should be able to embarrass them into at least chipping in on the fix. If they refuse ask them for the name of the SOA Rep for your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 no it wasn't a subaru dealership. uhhh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 In the second photo from the top you can see oil drops right next to the timing belt cover esp. on the driver's side edge of the oil pump. From there, you can see oil splashes on the front of the oil pan, and oil trails back on the bottom of the oil pan to the center plate. I would guess that you have a small oil leak around the cam or crank seals, or possibly the oil pump itself. I replaced the timing belt and oil seals this January, and if I can do it, I think you can too. It is really not too difficult a process. There are some great posts on this site that detail it step by step. Matt P.s. In the second set of pics, you are grabbing at the area that is leaking the most, but the oil is actually coming from inside the timing belt cover area. If you take the timing cover off, you should be able to pinpiont the exact area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 First, anything that Emily (CCRINC, as in CCR, Inc) suggests, do it. Second, I agree about probably a leaking crankshaft seal or camshaft seal, or both or all three. The timing cover hides a lot of sins. The pic looks like you are concerned about the shape of the cover seals. These are only dust/debris seals, and do not cover a "wet" area of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 In the second set of pics, you are grabbing at the area that is leaking the most, but the oil is actually coming from inside the timing belt cover area. If you take the timing cover off, you should be able to pinpiont the exact area. And I would be willing to bet money that it is the oil pump that is at the root of it all. Crank seal, Oil Pump gasket and O-Ring in particular, are my bet. Changing the T-Belt is bone simple, actually, and chould not be feared at all. align the crank gear before removing the old belt, as this puts the pistons a safe distance from the valves and you can align the cams easily after the timing belt is off. You have the 2.2L engine right? On that MY ('99, IIRC), you can lever the tensioner to the parking position and pin it in place, making the job go a lot faster (this is not as easy to do in pre 96MYs). After the belt is off, take the center gear off (should come off by hand, no need for levers) and pull the oil pump off to replace the seals (you should have already drained the oil and pulled the oil filter). When replacing the pump (after putting a new center seal on), put a thin coating of gasket seal around the outside edge of the pump, and make sure the O-ring is properly seated. I saw this kind of leaking on an older engine, and discovered that a badly positioned O-Ring was the whole of the problem. One of the three items I recomended replacing is almost certainly the source of your trouble. In the second set of pics you are seen pulling on the lower gasket on the center T-belt cover. While this connection looks worn, even loose, it is not the problem, as this gasket is mainly to protect what is inside. It leads to a dry area on the front of the engine (or at least this area should be dry. . .). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 okay that's what I figured. Thanks a lot every one. I know it isn't atf leaking from the power steering. I will tear it apart this week and figure out what is going on. do Subaru dealers usually carry the seals in stock? or can I use rtv? is there anything else I should replace while I'm at it? water pump? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Water pump change out would be a wise preventative measure while you're in there. The seals you need--crank and 2 cam (it is SOHC, right?)--are shaft seals, so you'd have to get them at dealers. Check with Subie Gal, she works at a dealership in Seattle (Chapman's?) and can get you a good price. You'll also need a new O-ring for oil pump, Loctite (blue?) for the screws on the pump's back plate and Permatex (gray?) to seal pump to block. You really, really need to use the search function (at top of page) and look for Timing Belt, Oil Pump and Crank and Cam Seals--there are several wonderfully thorough step-by-step writeups on exactly what you need. Good luck--and any questions you have, just ask here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Water pump change out would be a wise preventative measure while you're in there. The seals you need--crank and 2 cam (it is SOHC, right?)--are shaft seals, so you'd have to get them at dealers. Check with Subie Gal, she works at a dealership in Seattle (Chapman's?) and can get you a good price. You'll also need a new O-ring for oil pump, Loctite (blue?) for the screws on the pump's back plate and Permatex (gray?) to seal pump to block. You really, really need to use the search function (at top of page) and look for Timing Belt, Oil Pump and Crank and Cam Seals--there are several wonderfully thorough step-by-step writeups on exactly what you need. Good luck--and any questions you have, just ask here. Does his engine have the tensioner prone to 'ticking'? Yeah, a great investment would be some time searching this site for info, links to pictures, etc. And, as suggested, try www.subarugenuineparts.com and email/call jamie (subiegal) for parts/advice. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I haven't reviewed the entire thread - but you should confirm that the PCV valve/system is not clogged. It may or may not be causing the present oil leaks but would make them worse - and it doesn't affect the list of items needing attention if you go into the TB replacement soon. just a thought Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Water pump change out would be a wise preventative measure while you're in there. The seals you need--crank and 2 cam (it is SOHC, right?)--are shaft seals, so you'd have to get them at dealers. Check with Subie Gal, she works at a dealership in Seattle (Chapman's?) and can get you a good price. ... Most auto parts stores should also be able to get these seals for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 this may not mean anything ,but what weight of oil are you using ? if your using a light weight oil it may leak more , i have found this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat48 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Hello, I am having the same problem....I was travelling on vacation and while in the White Mountains...I noticed the smoking and acrid smell. When I got to the hotel...I called around to service centres and was told that the oil pump was leaking. Now so you know...I have a 1994 Impreza L with 205,000 miles. I bought the car with 113,000 in that time...I have keep up maintanence on the car but I have never had an engine issue. Did all my oil changes and tune-ups every 3,000miles. However I have never replace the timing belt and I am not sure whether it has ever been replaced in the lifespan. Anyways, My question is this. I know I have to replace the timing belt and I have intenstions on doing do, but when I replace the oil pump should I replace the whole oil pump or is it just a series of gaskets and seals. Also is it a necessity to replace the water pump. Should I replace the Cam seals or seal?. I was told that I should not have to replace the tensioners unless they break? Is that true? Final question...Is this a lengthy process to repair and does it require any special tools. Thank you for all the help...Those picture really helped me. Sorry for the spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 I think all you need is metric sockets and a breaker bar, and maybe a vise for the tensioner. you shouldn't need to replace it, just recompress it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyScoop Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Did anyone try taking their car to shop to fix for all these problems? It would be nice to have a reference of how much to expect with all the cost listed out for future Subaru owners. Or if you want to quantify in labor hours would work too. 1. Front Cam Seals R/R 2. Rear Cam Seals R/R 3. Oil Pump seals R/R 4. Power Steering Pump O-ring replace 5. Oil Pan Gasket R/R Let's get it started guys. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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