mentis Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hey guys, I know it's been a while since I've been on the boards. But here is my current concern... I took my car to the shop after the Check Engine Light came on while driving on the highway. The code reported was 32, which is the oxygen sensor. The mechanic said that the sensor itself would be $150, which I knew was high, but he informed me that the reason for the price was that it is the OEM Subaru sensor for my car. So, after the computer work, the sensor cost, plus the labor for installation, which I was told was a bit problematic on this sensor, I'm looking at paying about $300-$350. What do you guys think? Am I being ripped off...? And should I be looking for a different mechanic...? I nuderstand that the OEM part is higher quality, and that it would last longer. But that still seems a hefty total price for this job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 $20 for Bosh Universal 1wire 02 sensor $15 Oxygen Sensor Socket About an hour of your time Mission complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 ... and a little patience. Sometimes the O2 sensor doesn't want to come out nicely, so you need to back it out a little (1/4 turn?), douse the threads with good penetrant oil, read a book, and turn it back in and then back it out. I think that starting the engine to provide warmth is also suggested, just can't remember when in the procedure. As far as I can tell, and from what I have read and heard, there is very little if any difference between a Subaru sensor and the ones distributed by Bosch. I was recently told (I have not checked it out yet) that if you look at the Bosch sensor that they sell you for a Subaru it will have Nippon Denso's logo on it. I wouldn't doubt it. And your car is the EA82T that is in your other post? If so, you can almost certainly get away with just using a 22mm wrench on the sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave valiant Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Did your mechanic at least say he would give you a kiss when he was done F^%##&G you.OUCH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 For one thing, I have learned that auto repair thus far has been a lot more expensive here in NC than it was in MT. I had a great mechanic there, and maybe someday I'll find a good one here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 So now the mechanic is telling me that they are not getting a signal from the oxygen sensor that they just installed and that it's probably a faulty ECU. They also told me that a new ECU would be expensive, without an exact quote yet, probably in the range of several hundred dollars. This is getting ridiculous. I know that an ECU would not cost me that much. Maybe I can even get one from somebody here... ARRRRG...this is p1$$1ng me off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Why are you still dealing with this shop? Tell them to A) Stop Remove their faulty part C) You'll be picking it up later and D) haggle with them on charges. Most I'd pay thus far is shop time/labor. Your car will drive just fine with your old faulty O2 sensor. In the mean time you can A) Live with it or find a different shop. A 'new' computer is going to be quite expensive. A used one will not be expensive. I'd get a second opinion before changing the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Why are you still dealing with this shop? Tell them to A) Stop Remove their faulty part C) You'll be picking it up later and D) haggle with them on charges. Most I'd pay thus far is shop time/labor. Your car will drive just fine with your old faulty O2 sensor. In the mean time you can A) Live with it or find a different shop. A 'new' computer is going to be quite expensive. A used one will not be expensive. I'd get a second opinion before changing the computer. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Well, I actually okay the sensor replacement before posting this thread, though I probably shouldn't have. Now I guess I'm in for it. I just wanted them to do that and now it seems to be going downhill. If I tell them to put the old part back in they'll tell me they have to charge me for labor on all of that anyway. Argh. I don't think I'll be going back to those guys. But right now I'm waiting for them to call me back so I can find out what to do next. I'm kind of in limbo right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Pay for what... all 15 minutes it will take to put the old one back in? Tell them you aren't retarded and know it wont take more than 15 min for a trained professional to swap those sensors again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 When they told me they'll need to replace the sensor, I asked how much I would have to pay if I didn't have them do any additional work, and I was told that the computer work plus minimum checkup charge would come to $150. I was also told today that the old sensor is not giving them a signal now either, which is why they think it's probably the ECU. So putting the old one back in wouldn't really change anything at this point. ...I'm afraid I'm not really all that great at haggling either...so I'm wating for them to call me and let me know what it is exactly that's going on in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 So, that's their own misdiagnosis, why should you have to pay them for anything to do with the sensor replacement? They should put the old one back in, charge you nothing up to that point, and move on with the ECU replacement. Personally, it sounds to me like you've been getting boned from the start and now they're just seeing how much they can get you for. I'd tell them to put the old sensor back in, since they misdiagnosed that. Pay them for labor to diagnose the ECU and leave. Then find an ECU at a JY and see if that cures your code. If not, go buy an O2 sensor and install it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 When they told me they'll need to replace the sensor, I asked how much I would have to pay if I didn't have them do any additional work, and I was told that the computer work plus minimum checkup charge would come to $150. what computer work.. It doesn't require a diagnosis machine to retrieve codes.. so no computer there. The ECU will automagically stop giving you a CEL when the faulty sensor/input is repaired/replaced, so no computer work there.. you are getting screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 you are getting screwed I think we've already established that, hehe . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjs Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I have been told by a mechanic who specializes in Subaru (though I do not know for sure that even he is correct), that the ECU in pre '92 Subys is a nearly useless POS anyway. He claims that more than half of the error codes these old ECUs give are false, so you would do very well to get your car back and go to a boneyard and get and ECU (if you feel you must have it) and get a cheap Bosch O2 sensor and be done with this scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Well, I finally got my car back. Since I okayed the O2 sensor replacement I had to pay them for that. This ended up costing me $340 all together, $140 of which was for the sensor, the rest was labor plus taxes. They called me early on in this and told me they couldn't find where to hook up to the ECU to get the codes. I thought that was rather silly, but I told them there was a Subaru repair manual in the back of my car. Apparently they got it figured out after that . I was told that when they put in the new sensor, it didn't give back a signal. So they put back in the old sensor and that didn't give them a signal either. They suspected the possiblity of a short, or the ECU being bad. After testing for shorts they couldn't find any but they could not determine the ECU to be bad either. Seems to me like they didn't really know what they were doing. So I finally got my car back and when I picked it up the guy told me that even though they couldn't determine exactly that anything was faulty, it still wasn't working right. He said to watch for a couple of days to see if the CEL would come on again, and then he can find me a used ECU (which he said would be in the $200 range). I was also told that some of what I had already spent with them would go towards the ECU installation if that indeed turned out to be necessary. I'm thinking I probably don't want these guys working on my beloved Sube anymore. So I went to work, and then drove the car to the store after work and then home. On my way home I noticed something I thought was smoke coming from the front, but I couldn't tell for sure. But when I parked the car at home and popped the hood, lots and lots of smoke was coming from under the front of the spare tire. The thing is that it hardly smelled like anything, where most smoke coming from the car has a very strong odor. The color was white, I think, but it was only faintly visible. So now I'm wondering, what the hell is going on!?! What did they do to my car?!? Now I could use some words of wisdom from you folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Now I could use some words of wisdom from you folks... Wise man say : Find the leak. What did it smell like? Antifreeze engine coolant and oil have distinct smells when burned up into smoke form! They might have accidently knocked loose a coolant or oil line to/from your turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 That's just it, I don't recognize the smell. It doesn't smell like coolant or oil. I'm not even sure if it's a fluid leak which is causing the burn. Since they mentioned the possibility of a short, maybe it's wires burning, but that would have a distinct smell too. Could it be anything that's not a fluid...? The problem is that this has almost no odor, but there is definately visible smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Maybe the O2 sensor isnt that tight in the bung and you are getting lots of fuel/exhuast blow by? Check your coolant level! Lost any? Temp guage rise up? Check your oil. Again, any lost? The plot thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 The plot thickens! Indeed . Since the O2 Sensor and ECU control the air/fule mixture, non operational or malfunctioning parts could cause unusual amounts of these to be released, and maybe there's a leak somewhere now. I'll double check to see if the O2 sensor is loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
555Ron Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Have you changed the plugs? My fathers Mazda was making funny noises and not going to well. The plugs were the original and had done 120,000kms. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 The plugs have no more than 5K on them, so I really doubt that's got anything to do with it. Considering my recent encounters with the mechanic and my O2 sensor issue, I think that's more likely to be related to the smoke than the plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I run with out an O2 sensor. It does run noticably richer than before. She does blow some smoke when cold (by the smell its a little oil and lots of GAS! LOL) Had a bright idea just now... pull the dang spare tire out of the way and look there behind your throttle body. See anything suspecious? You said thats where the smoke was coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 This thread infuriates me almost to the point of making a long distance call to your 'mechanic'. You should NOT have agreed to pay for the 02 sensor, that was their diagnosis, not yours. This is an incompetent shop, did you check the fair business beauro first??? I would make a complaint to them. I have a computer from a 1986 turbo car, might work with your car, this group would know. $75 plus shipping. It's very easy to replace yourself. Are you familiar with electrical, oil, coolant, gear oil, etc odors? I would do a close visual inspection to see what these yahoos did to your car. Then maybe threaten lawsuit if they don't give your money back. ANYTIME a shop replaces parts on your car- make a note on the agreement to 'keep old parts'. This will get you out of paying for stuff they never replaced, very common problem. Worked for me a couple times. The shops shortcut troubleshooting by shotgunning all related parts at your expense. This group is very helpfull and will at the veary least, give you good info on exactly what you need to have done. I hope it all works out for you and let me know if you end up needing my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentis Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 Yeah, realize now that maybe I should not have had them do that job, but I did agreed to it back then, and so that's my mistake. Now, however, it would seem that this has gone beyond just my mistake though. I did check the BBB online and though the business was listed there was no consumer information from them. Also, I do believe that I am familiar with the odors which you have mentioned, and as I have said before, it is none of those. I think I will go and check it out here in a sec to see if I can find anthing. Chances are though that the car needs to be warmed up before it'll start smoking though. Does anyone else know if the ECU from the 86 sube would would in mine...? That would be great if it did. Thank you so much for the offer Boosted, if it works I may very well be getting that from you. Thanks to everyone who is helping me on this. I appreciate it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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