Wierd EA81 starter problem.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

This is actually for Jibs, but I'll post to try to keep things clear.

 

Jibs has a '82 GL Brat. EA81 with 1bbl carter/weber. The engine is old & the carb sucks so we decide to swap engines. Jibs found a donor car, 1984 GL with a EA81 and 2bbl hitachi. No ECU, no O2, no CA emissions. Engine is brand new, so clean you can see your face in the heads. We towed the donor car back to Jibs because the starter wouldnt crank over. Bypassing the ignition only got a "click" out of the starter, and hitting it with a hammer did no help, so we towed it back home.

 

We replaced the starter, and now we were able to get a click with the key (where before we got nothing with the key). I turned the engine alittle with a breaker bar to free it up a bit, and we were able to get the starter to crank the motor... but the starter was going REALLY slow like the battery was dying. Swapped batteries and its still going really slow. Both batteries were good, and in any other car would provide plenty of cranking power. Didnt think much of it since we're robbing the motor, so we yank the motor out of the car and slap it in his '82 Brat.

 

I overlook all the wiring differences (2bbl will be replaced with weber, so didnt bother). I had to go home, but Jibs has been wrenching on it since.

 

I guess now, his '82 Brat is having starter problems. Starter will click, when it does turn over it turns very slowly. As if the battery is dying. I dont think its the starter as this starter worked perfectly with the old engine. And the symptoms seem to be traveling with the engine.

 

Anyone know what could be keeping the starter from cranking? Im thinking maybe the engine is restricting it, but when we do get it fired up (only ran off-carb cleaner on the donor engine) the engine ran fine. No noises and didnt seem seized.

 

Also, i think this maybe causing the ground wire to burn... from the spare tire area to the block.

 

-Brian

[GLCraig]

Try a different battery cable.

[jeffroid]

I would at least check to make sure that the positive battery cable was not pinched in between anything and grounding out. That has happened to me on at least two different occassions.

[edrach]

A battery cable starting to smoke is a sure sign of a bad connection in that cable; I'm with Craig, replace it before you waste any more time on it and if it still cranks slowly, we'll follow up on that then.

[Jibs]

It's not the battery cable. It's a ground wire that connects from the end of the spare tire mount to the transmission. I replaced it the first time after it got burned pretty bad with another one from another car, and it did the same thing. It didn't get AS hot, but still real warm to the touch.

[Cougar]

My first thought is there is that the starter is partialy shorting to ground somehow. I would replace it if you have a spare one. Where is the main ground cable tied to? If the starter is ok then try replacing it.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Im wondering if maybe the engine itself isnt able to conduct enough current with the ground. Maybe if we moved the negative cable from the engine to the tranny, get it alittle closer to the starter.

 

That would explain why the donor car wouldnt want to crank too.

 

-Brian

[TomRhere]

Im wondering if maybe the engine itself isnt able to conduct enough current with the ground. Maybe if we moved the negative cable from the engine to the tranny, get it alittle closer to the starter.

 

That would explain why the donor car wouldnt want to crank too.

 

-Brian

 

I'm thinking you're real close on that one Brian. I would check the "main" negative battery cable out real good, especially at the end that attaches to the engine. I have ran across afew that have corroded to the point of breakage, inside of the crimped-on terminal. The fact that the smaller engine to body ground wire burnt, is a real good indicator that the "main' ground isn't right. I've seen the braided engine to body straps glow red on a couple of vehicles due to a bad "main" ground cable.

[Cougar]

The engine should have no trouble conducting the current but the main cable may be at fault. I need to know how the ground wiring is connected. It sounds to me that the main ground cable is damaged and there is another smaller cable to the chassis that is making the ground for the starter. Whatever the reason, the main ground path is not working as it should. Without a description of how things are run I can't help with this any further.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Negative goes from the battery to the engine block.

 

There is also a smaller ground from the tranny to the spare tire carrier.

 

Wish i wasnt 2 hours away, i could go up there and take a look... possibly fix it for him.

 

-Brian

[Scoobywagon]

Here's what I'd do, at least for troubleshooting purposes.

 

Make a new ground cable to run from one of the starter bolts to the battery. Build another one to go from the engine block to the battery and a third to go from Body to battery. This should ensure that you've got solid ground everywhere. NExt, take your battery to your local parts store and have them test it. Assuming it tests out ok, make sure that the positive cable is good. If you aren't sure, make a new one. This will ensure that your wires are all good and if that's the case...the starter becomes suspect.

 

Based on what you wrote about the ground wire getting hot, I suspect that the main ground from engine block to battery is fried. None of my EA81 cars have a ground wire from the starter to the spare tire carrier, so I'm assuming that's an add-on. Either way, the starter is dealing with enough current that it is well worth your while to keep its ground lead as short as possible.

[Jibs]

I'm off tomorrow so I'll try what everyone has posted. Thanks guys and I'll let you know how it goes.

[Jibs]

Thanks guys!! That did the trick! I disconnected the negative battery and put a new longer one on and attached it to one of the top engine mount bolts, then made sure everything was good to go. I tried it 3 times, each time it was like it was before. Except for one thing - It didn't smoke anywhere. Then the fourth time, the engine started! And ran! So that was it, I think the car had been sitting for so long out in the desert heat that the ground was a little worn. But thanks again, I just gotta get the throttle cable back on and I'm good to go.

[Cougar]

Glad you got it fixed and thanks for the feedback. I would imagine if you cut the wire open near the battery end you will find the wire is corroded inside.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

From what I understand, the starter is STILL turning slowly??

 

Im gonna try to get up there sometime soon to take a look at it. Im hoping its only a starter... but this starter worked fine before we put the engine in.

 

-Brian

[Cougar]

Since the main ground lead was bad, it may be that the main starter lead is bad also. A corroded wire could cause this problem. You could try using a jumper cable to bypass the lead to see if that cures the problem.

[Adam N.D.J.]

The EA81's do have a tendancy to do this, cause of the short negative cable going to the battery from the front of the block. Things actually get corroded, and gummed up, taking the starter on and off, separating the tranny and engine, then the starter doesn't ground right, and it starts searching for new grounds, (i.e. the sensor ground on the spare tire carrier, the throttle cable, ect.). And if you paint your engine, or tranny, specially the bellhousings!! Wooh, your in for some trouble then. Subaru actually discovered this problem, and corrected it with the EA82's (looks where the neg cable on them is).