karinvail Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I have driven Soob's for 16 years and never had an outer CV joint go out on an axle - had MANY go out in the INNER, but never the outer. Well, this car has been a whole slew of "new" things for me, LOL. The boot is ripped on the outer/passenger side I just noticed because the front is making a funny noise I've never heard before. A clinking sound vs. the clunking sound I've heard before when CV's have gone bad before. Do outer CV joints make a different noise when they go bad than the inner ones????? And, it doesn't seem to be affected by steering - although I do hear it more when driving slow, but that doesn't mean that it's not making the noise at higher speeds (maybe I just can't hear it then over the other car/engine/muffler noise). It does appear that the bearings need done on that side as well (too much play in wheel). So, looks like we are going to be doing an axle and bearings when we get back from vacation - but in the meantime, can I tighten the castle nut or will that mess the bearings up way worse? I don't want to make things more difficult when we go to replace them, but I need to get some more time out of them hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 My first thought was to have you make sure that it wasn't just a loose axle (castle) nut. If the axle has recently been messed with, then it very well could be loose, giving odd moises (though more likely a graunching/grinding noise then a plink) and loose "bearings". Bearing s are not loaded significantly by axle tightnessnut presses agains inside race on outer bearing, which presses against spacer, which presses against inner race on inner bearing, which presses against axle shoulder. Non-tapered bearings, so no axial load. BTW, the inner joint on the axles are technically a double offset joint (DOJ), rather than the CV joint on the outside. The CVs tend to make clicking/plinking noises while turning or otherwise when they have angularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSubaruGLwagon Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I have a lose knock in my front end,. I thought it was the struts so i replaced them,,, no effect,,,,,bearings, OK,,,,, ball joints, OK,,, turns out it is the inner tie rod joints on the steering rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'm with northwet, check the castle nut to see if things had loosened up there. Re-torque it to 145 ft-lbs if it has. Odd, I've always found that the CVJ will click or clunk under hard lock turns and the DOJ will cause excessive vibration in the car under certain conditions and not click or clunk. If you've got a torn boot at either location, I'd replace the axle and be done with it. Without the torn boot, the noise you describe could be a number of things. A bad wheel bearing usually "growls" and the sound will go away when you make turns in one direction or the other (and you "unload" the bearing). I recently found that an occasional clunk when turning with my brat was caused by the clamping bolt that secures the strut within the wheel hub casting had come loose. Too much play in the steering wheel is not usually a sign of a bad wheel bearing in our Subarus. Bad inner or outer ball joints in the steering rack would cause that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'm with northwet... Me, too!!! ... an occasional clunk when turning ... Wife's car developed a turning clunk that was the rack mounts/bushings being too sloppy, and the rack was shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 I will have hubby re-torque the castle nut. We have not messed with the axles, but who knows who did them last. I also forgot to mention that there is a hard/fast vibration in the steering wheel from about 15MPH to 25MPH too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Well, the noise I am confident is not the axle or the wheel bearings now. I drove hubby to work this morning (at 3am, YUK!) - and the noise is almost certainly coming from the transaxle area - maybe in the bell-housing. The sound is a clinking sound like loose metal flapping and clinking on other metal. It's a faster noise when you are driving faster sometimes, but it doesn't seem to be affected by RPM's, or the clutch/shifting or braking, or which direction I'm steering. It doesn't make the noise when it's idling (whether in neutral of in gear with clutch pressed in). It only makes the noise when driving. The noise comes and goes, and sometimes it's real quiet and barely noticeable - and sometimes it's real violent sounding and it sounds like something is going to fall off. It's totally unpredictable though. We were just under the car working on the exhaust Saturday and we could not see anything that was noticably loose. There was a broken exhaust bracket (the one that hooks to the tranny) that I was HOPING was the noise, but with a new bracket welded up, it is obvious that wasn't it because the noise is still there. I thought for a second that maybe something had dropped into the timing hole in the bell-housing, or something had worked loose on something inside the bell-housing, but it doesn't make the noise at an idle! Only when driving. I am completely stumped. Does the throw-out bearing make strange noises when it's going out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Throwout bearings can indeed make funny noises. However you would hear it at idle and in time to the RPMs with the clutch going in/out. When you say their is play at the wheel in reference to bad bearings; look under the control arm at the ball joint as you 'wiggle' the wheel. Might be the ball joint that has play in it rather than the bearings. Bearings make really funny noises too and are often unpredicatble. As they roll stuff gets shifted around and noises come and go. I've had them make horrible noises one minute than BAM the next minute sound fine. Weird little buggers :-\ Oh, CV isn't out of the question yet! They make funny noises and affect steering also when going bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Throwout bearings can indeed make funny noises. However you would hear it at idle and in time to the RPMs with the clutch going in/out. When you say their is play at the wheel in reference to bad bearings; look under the control arm at the ball joint as you 'wiggle' the wheel. Might be the ball joint that has play in it rather than the bearings. Bearings make really funny noises too and are often unpredicatble. As they roll stuff gets shifted around and noises come and go. I've had them make horrible noises one minute than BAM the next minute sound fine. Weird little buggers :-\ Oh, CV isn't out of the question yet! They make funny noises and affect steering also when going bad. The noise is definitely coming directly from the middle of the car - somewhere near the firewall area/transaxle. It just doesn't sound like anything from the steering or wheels - it's not making noise in that area. I have wiggled everything I can get my hands on and can't find anything that would make such a noise. I am glad to think that maybe it's not a throw-out bearing (I definitely DON'T want to pull the motor again!), but man I wish I could figure out WHAT it is. I need my car to go to Monroe this Saturday!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 well, looks like we may have found the culprit. A U-joint that has WAAAY too much slop in it. Looks like I get to learn how to change U-joints! Any tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The easiest and cheapest way I can think of to change the u-joint is to head to the nearest PAP yard and remove the entire two piece driveshaft with the center bearing carrier and just replace it. Do it quickly on your car since when you pull the driveshaft from the rear of the transmission, you'll loose some of the tranny gearoil. well, looks like we may have found the culprit. A U-joint that has WAAAY too much slop in it. Looks like I get to learn how to change U-joints! Any tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 well, looks like we may have found the culprit. A U-joint that has WAAAY too much slop in it. Looks like I get to learn how to change U-joints! Any tips? Hello, When was new to all this Subie stuff, and was doing the tranny swap to 5 sp, I noticed that the U joints had no grease zirks. Then I noticed that the U joints don't even come out of the drive lines. That made me mad, so I got on the old USMB search engine and studied up on the matter. Roughly, this is what I learned. The U joints are staked in at the factory. You can look at where the U joint goes into the pipe and see where it looks like sombody took a small cold chisel and "swedged" )staked) little divits in four (is it four? I don't remember) spots around the edge of the pipe. Apparently Fuji thought these U joints would last the life of the vehicle. I guess they wernt ment to be replaced. I read some stuff where some guy HAS replaced them, and even about which U joints from other vehicles will fit, and about how many times you can replace them before you run out of spots to do the "staking" by hand with a chisel. (it was quite a few) I definately got the impression that almost everybody just gets another driveline from a Junk yard. I think this is a really cheesy way to make a driveline, and always figured on having a custom one made, with replaceable, greaseable U joints. Expensive though, and never got around to it. I assume that since the above is the case, you can't buy U joints for these rigs anywhere? Don't know if thats true or not, but it makes sense. Let us know how you make out. Good luck Leland La Pine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 OMG - NOT what I wanted to hear What a pain in the @$$ - I don't want a used part in there if I have to replace it! Dang........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Just swap on a whole drive shaft assembly. 6 bolts and it's out of the vehicle. 6 more and the new one is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Well, that wasn't too difficult! Did it all myself!!! And MAN what a difference!!!!! The front end shake is almost completely gone, the funny noise is totally gone, and at highway speeds my car is quiet! I used to have all these rattles everywhere and they are gone! Those u-joints were just *hammered*. The front one was so beat out, I'm suprised it didn't break!!!! What a relief to have that fixed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Glad that you found and fixed the problem. Having a u-joint fail at highway speeds can be...umm...interesting. Especially if it is the front. Pole vaulting, anyone? On the brighter side, I would imagine that u-joint failure is rather rare on Subarus and similar vehicles. I have over 320k on the 6 u-joints in my Datsun without any sign of binding or looseness, and mine were never babied by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Glad that you found and fixed the problem. Having a u-joint fail at highway speeds can be...umm...interesting. Especially if it is the front. Pole vaulting, anyone? On the brighter side, I would imagine that u-joint failure is rather rare on Subarus and similar vehicles. I have over 320k on the 6 u-joints in my Datsun without any sign of binding or looseness, and mine were never babied by me. Yes, pole vaulting came to me in my nightmares! It was the front u-joint - and it was so hammered! I also noticed that the ''old'' one had zirk fittings at the u-joints and the ''new'' one doesn't. I imagine that someone added the zirk fittings to grease them when they started to wear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Did you know you can also pole vault when your exhaust falls off at the front? My GL-10 did it while on a hairpin turn exit doing about 25 mph... it was pretty scary. I can't imagine the "air" you'd get from a u-joint! Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jx7 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Yikes on the potential pole vaulting! My u-joint just bit it (which is how I arrived at this thread) as I was driving on the highway. Horrendous clanging ensued. Anyone know if there are any fresh gen 2 4wd wagons at the Lynwood PAP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSubaruGLwagon Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 :oI have a question that might fall into the realm of this thread.. :confused:I have a low roar in my car cmming somewhere from the drive-train . :-\It is loudist from 10-25 mph. it does not change tone or pitch when I turn. :(I know i have a worn CV because when I turn the wheel at it's tightist turn I can hear the CV "clunk clunk clunk clunk" I thought maybe it was the tires but they seem smooth enough. Could this be a Bearing? I put the car on a jack and tried to shake the wheels and their tight,,, and they spin good. Any Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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