NorthWet Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 LPG is not the same as natural gas that's piped in by large utilities.Natural gas is methane. Ray Mac. And methane has an octane rating of around 120! Unfortunately, it doesn't liquify well, so it is sold as a very high-pressure gas; approx 3000 psi (200bar?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 one bonus with LPG is that you can advance the ignition timing a fair bit, i've run as high as 22 deg base with no problems on my current motor. im running around 18 deg at the moment I heard that using LPG the car will be slower and loss some HP(especially in Boxer engines). What do yo thing about that....??I will install LPG on my car next week and I want to now every advantages/disadvantages. Thank you all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Other info's: GPL (the liquefied petrol gas) are a combination of hydrocarbons maintained in liquefied state under pressure, that can be used in gaseous state as fuel GPL mainly includes two types of gas: butane and propane. The butane is distributed in small bottles, being a low pressure gas that can be used inside due to the fact that the vaporization temperature is over 0,5° C On the other hand, the propane is a high-pressure gas that can be distributed both in small bottles, but also in large capacities tanks. The propane can be used at low temperatures, vaporizing up to - 42°C. ADVANTAGES: - Without sulphur and lead, the GPL provides a clean and efficient burning - Compared with other types of energy, it is extremely competitive, providing energetic independence - It reduces the costs for maintaining the burning equipments, prolonging the functioning life of the equipments - it offers the possibility of a precise consume control Note:In Romania LPG is half price than gasoline so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I heard that using LPG the car will be slower and loss some HP(especially in Boxer engines).What do yo thing about that....??I will install LPG on my car next week and I want to now every advantages/disadvantages. Thank you all... the main loss of power on an lpg converted engine is on a carburated motor that still has the petrol carb fitted with a LPG mixer/ventury on top as that makes 2 venturys that the intake air has to pass through ....if you can go dedicated LPG with a LPG carburetor there should be no loss of power . my current homemade LPG carb is a ea82t throttle body with a 46mm mixing ring on top, its mounted on an adapter mount in place of the stock hitachi carb on a ea81 . im thinking that the 46mm mixer is a little on the large side as i still have some issues at idle(like having to set the idle at about 1100 rpm to maintain enough ventury vacuum to draw gas through so it will idle consistantly,however i have a 43mm mixer that im going to fit when i get time that should sort that problem out) but its better than the previous carb i had on there as that was off a 4.1L six cyl and did some really weird things due to lack of intake air volume being draw by the motor at idle and low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSubaruGLwagon Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I'm a bit confused,, as is normal,,, anyway, every website I have went to say repetedly that LPG for use in auto's is not the same as propaine used in gas grills and buffers and such. ???? also,, I saw a website that sells a spare tire shaped propain taink that fits in the pare tire storage area, I wounder if that would be safe in the engine compartment of a subaru??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSubaruGLwagon Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 neet site: http://www.gotpropane.com/ heres another link: http://www.propanecarbs.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 the main loss of power on an lpg converted engine is on a carburated motor that still has the petrol carb fitted with a LPG mixer/ventury on top as that makes 2 venturys that the intake air has to pass through ....if you can go dedicated LPG with a LPG carburetor there should be no loss of power ... Two issues not yet considered will effect power. The first is that because most LPG applications evaporate the LPG into its gaseous state, it physically takes up more volume than liquid gasoline. A gasoline carburetor atomizes gasoline rather than gasifies it, so most of the gasoline stays liquid and doesn't expand to its full gaseous volume. What this means is that the gaseous LPG displaces some of the air that the engine intakes, lowering the volumetric efficiency of the engine by some 10-15% (IIRC). The other point I mentioned earlier, is that LPG has a lower energy content and slower burn rate (flame speed). The lower energy content implies that, compared to gasoline, more LPG needs to be used to get the same A/F ratio, further displacing air and lowering volumetric efficiency. And the slower burn rate means that more energy will be lost due to advanced ignition timing or continued burning after the exhaust valve opens... UNLESS the engine is optimized for LPG (e.g. higher compression ratio). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somecallmetim Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I would like to her from anybody that has tried any sort of Suby diesel mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 i work at u-haul and we service propane. this lady rols up in a cavalier and she goes to ppen what i thought was the trunk for her cylinder but she popped the gas cap. filled up with propane. it had an evaporayot/mix unit on the intake tube where the MAF would be, and a generic round air filter. the engine itself still had the fuel rails for gas. anyway we had the right fittings so it tool 10 gallons of propane (opd valve and all) I'm a bit confused,, as is normal,,,anyway, every website I have went to say repetedly that LPG for use in auto's is not the same as propaine used in gas grills and buffers and such. ???? also,, I saw a website that sells a spare tire shaped propain taink that fits in the pare tire storage area, I wounder if that would be safe in the engine compartment of a subaru??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I saw a website that sells a spare tire shaped propain tank that fits in the spare tire storage area, I wounder if that would be safe in the engine compartment of a subaru??? BUT WHERE WOULD YOU MOUNT YOUR "TOP MOUNT INTERCOOLER" Id think that in the engine compartment, there is much less protection (especially from a front end collision) than the origional fuel tank place (down low, between the rear wheels) and if sub zero liquid spilt onto a hot engine, the results could be catastrophic. But dont get me wrong, i love the idea:cool: Gannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critical_max Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I worked for an airline caterer where some of the "ramp trucks" (the lift trucks that service the aircraft with snack/drink carts, and facilitate smuggling operations for international cartels (I kid you not)) ran on propane. These were big Ford F600s, 20 years old if they were a day. Ran real strong. I got to fill them up on the rare occasions when the fuel ran out on my shift... although it was always a little nerve-wracking working with the high pressure I never had anything bad happen. As others have mentioned, the filling/tank hardware is heavy-duty, and the stuff burns nice and clean. torquey, but then again so is any big-block V8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 15, 2005 Author Share Posted August 15, 2005 Saturday I'll install LPG on my car and I will be able to tell you the differences. Here in Romania, because gasoline is expensive regarding our salary, LPG is very popular and I saw installed even on BMW, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 15, 2005 Author Share Posted August 15, 2005 BUT WHERE WOULD YOU MOUNT YOUR "TOP MOUNT INTERCOOLER" Id think that in the engine compartment, there is much less protection (especially from a front end collision) than the origional fuel tank place (down low, between the rear wheels) and if sub zero liquid spilt onto a hot engine, the results could be catastrophic. But dont get me wrong, i love the idea:cool: Gannon In our services(in Romania) LPG tank is installed ONLY in car trunk..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 In our services(in Romania) LPG tank is installed ONLY in car trunk..... same here.....and i wouldn't want an LPG or any other type of fuel ank ahead of me if i smack into something anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Finally the LPG is installed on my car, and is working great..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 What sort of fuel economy are you getting with it? I am very keen for running on LPG myself, now that it is half the price of petrol here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Things are like this: -gasoline consumption is around 10%(in the city) and 7,5-8%(outside)-1 liter of gasoline is around 1.2 USD -LPG consumption is 12% and 9,5%-1 liter of LPG is 0.6 USD The only problem(until now ) is that the car lose about 6-7% from his power, depending of what you expect from..... Best regards all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 The only problem(until now ) is that the car lose about 6-7% from his power, depending of what you expect from..... try advancing the timing a little bit at a time, you should be able to get most of the loss of power back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 can you convert a FI soob to LPG? none of the sites i can find show what you actually need to do. are FI conversions possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 here's some good info on how to do it and what's required (scroll past all the stuff on top): http://www.wps.com/LPG/lpg-how-to-book.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Could you be more specific??? Thank you. try advancing the timing a little bit at a time, you should be able to get most of the loss of power back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 due to characteristics, advance the ignition timing higher than typical stock settings and you should get some power back. that site i just posted right above your post has details about advancing the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 can you convert a FI soob to LPG? none of the sites i can find show what you actually need to do. are FI conversions possible? yeah you can convert a FI system to LPG... you need emulators that (normally) wire in on the back of the injectors ,emulators shut off the power to the injector to shut the fuel off while at the same time telling the ECU that the injector is working like it should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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