NorthWet Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 (The following is a thought problem, not something that is causing me problems and needs to be resolved.) I had a thought (this one NOT involving monkeys taking over the world ): Is there any correlation between an hydraulic lash adjuster's (HLA) orientation in its bore and the Tick Of Doom? As in, the HLA has an oil hole (2? I forget), and if that oil hole is pointed downwards in its bore will the oil tend to drain while the engine is off? If it does drain, is this a bad thing (air getting in or the whole thing collapsing enough so the the sliding parts stick in a varnished region), a good thing (gets more fresh oil into the HLA to help flush it), or unimportant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I'll take a SWAG, as I just had an engine apart and saw all this stuff. I don't think it would make a difference. Assuming there are no leaks in the oil system between the pump/filter and lifter, and the anti-drain back valve in your oil filter is working properly, there would be no where for the oil to drain to. Similarly, for the oil to drain out, there would have to be air to replace it, correct? Where would this come from? I suppose if the check valve/spring thingy in the cam tower failed, the air could come from there. Now, on the other hand, since we know how many soobs don't leak a little oil here and there... If the O-ring between the cam tower & head was bad and leaking, it seems possible, however unlikely, that air would be able to enter there, or allow oil to leak and a faulty check valve to allow air in the other end of the system. I dunno, just some random thoughts on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Well, the HLAs themselves can/will drain if you lay them on their sides. And they are just a slip fit into their bores, so there is nothing to prevent oil from leaking out and air to leak in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSPFI Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 If you relieve the pressure they will tick until they get pumped back up again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 28, 2005 Author Share Posted August 28, 2005 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Pat, catch qman sometime and he'll fill you in on the cause of the "tick of death." Actually, it's not really deadly....annoying as heck, but I've yet to see an EA82 "die" of it. Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Well, the HLAs themselves can/will drain if you lay them on their sides. And they are just a slip fit into their bores, so there is nothing to prevent oil from leaking out and air to leak in. I've still been thinking about this occasionally... I would presume that when the HLAs are in their bore it's sealed, so the oil couldn't leak out. ie, while your finger is on the end of a straw, the fluid won't leak out; that kind of thing. That's what I was trying to get at with my above descriptions. that make sense to anyone else but me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Well, how about this? This diagram shows the galleries for the HLA's and also a relief valve that is in each cam case. I wonder if the relief valve could be part of the problem. It gets quite a bath from the looks of it and maybe with enough sludge it could stick open a little. Enough that, if the HLA is lined up in the gallery correctly it could drain out a small amount of oil, thus creating the tick at startup. Altho this doesnt explain the tick that doesnt go away without some cleaning agent. This might be caused by the gallery getting clogged with sludge also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarunuts Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong, but lifters are generally designed to rotate in their bore as the cam lobe runs in contact with them at a point slightly offset from dead center. This is why they are round and not some other shape. Installation should not matter, as orientation will change with each rotation of the cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 28, 2005 Author Share Posted August 28, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong, but lifters are generally designed to rotate in their bore as the cam lobe runs in contact with them at a point slightly offset from dead center. This is why they are round and not some other shape. Installation should not matter, as orientation will change with each rotation of the cam. These are not lifters in the pushrod sense; they are stationary pivot points that otherwise are similar to hydraulic lifters. They are not designed to rotate. I think that the idea that "there is no place for the oil to go", similar to holding a finger over a straw, is fallacious, as the oil has to get into the HLA somehow, which means it displaces something, which means the something has to escape someplace. "Some" argument, eh? The oil pressure is applied into the bore into which the HLA slips, and since it is a slip fit there is opportunity (requirement???) for the oil to pass around the HLA body and out into the cam carrier for drainback. BTW, I did verify that there is only one oil hole in the HLA body. To clarify some more, I am not looking for the cause of HLA ticking, but wonder if some things that we do somewhat regularly (HGs) might contribute to tickings because we do not orient the HLAs in a particular direction. The devil is in the details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 i've never had ticking issues when i install HLA's so i don't think it's related to the position in the bore. unless every time i've installed them it's been right. every ticking issue i've had has been related to the HLA or the oil pump or maybe something that got worked out when i ran ATF or MMO through the engine. no ticking on mine when i get done. are you discussing this because you have a persistent ticking problem that won't go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 ... are you discussing this because you have a persistent ticking problem that won't go away? No problem, just the thought came to me while doing an HG job (well, I am still doing them :-\ ) that the manuals make a point of telling you not to lay the HLAs on their sides, and if you do that you should do something special to them. So, I was thinking that there are so many things that we get away with but should do differently (how many times have you read about somebody doing valve-job on their Soob?), that perhaps there might be a better way to deal with the HLAs than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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