'03 outback brake job question

[pyromanic]

Since I've restored my '85 gl wagon so successfully, my folks want me to install new pads on their '03 outback.

 

I've completely renewed my wagons brakes, and done the disk conversion on the rear, but have no idea how different the later model brakes are set up.

 

Will I be C clampling the pistons or turning them in? Any other tips or advice? Do they have the same axle nuts and stuff like mine?

 

They bought it from Hertz, and Hertz wants 300 bucks for the job. They can't afford that. If it's as easy to do as my old gen, then I thought I'd charge them like a hundred or something, plus parts.

 

I'd do it for nothing, but theyd not allow that. Actually, that's ok, I could use the dough right now.

 

Oh, by the way, it doesn't have many miles on it, so I'm thinking the rotors are probably fine.

 

Pyro

[Subie Gal]

great thread with photos on just how easy it is to change these brakes

 

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181

 

14mm socket

caliper spreader or c clamp

and you're golden

 

Jamie

[SuBrat84]

Yup just as easy on the new ones as the old ones... not a lot has changed. $300?!?! That's outrageous. Even 100 + Parts.. sheesh.. I'd never pay that for a brake job. If they got the $$$ though go for it.

[pyromanic]

Thanks for that link. I see what I'm dealing with. No prob at all.

 

But now I find THIS out:

 

The reason my folks called Hertz in the first place was that the brake pedal is going almost to the floor. The Hertz service dept. told them that it just needs pads.

 

Thats not right is it? As pads wear, the system should self adjust, right? I suspect something else is going on. Air in brake line, or leak in system and low on fluid? Or problem with Master cyl?

 

Thanks guys,

 

Pyro

 

Edit after talking to my folks this AM: I don't know why I thought that hydrolic disk brakes "self adjusted", and that the pedal would stay in the same place as the pads wore, just thought so, maybe something I heard somewhere.

 

But my dad tells me in his "03 Subaru Outback owners manual, it says that when the pedal is getting close to the floor, it's time to renew the pads. Hmmmm. I must have been wrong. We'll install new pads and see what happens.

 

great thread with photos on just how easy it is to change these brakes

 

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181

 

14mm socket

caliper spreader or c clamp

and you're golden

 

Jamie

[gbhrps]

Pyromanic,

 

The brakes are a snap to do. Just be sure to bleed each of the calipers afterwards to remove any water that has entered the sytem. Actually on an 03, its about time to flush the entire system anyway, to get rid of any water. Be sure to check the master cylinder reservoir when you push in the piston of each caliper, to ensure that the fluid in the reservoir doesn't overflow and rundown the firewall and remove the paint. You can remove any excess fluid with an old turkey baster. Good luck.

[Steve530]

Thanks for that link. I see what I'm dealing with. No prob at all.

 

But now I find THIS out:

 

The reason my folks called Hertz in the first place was that the brake pedal is going almost to the floor. The Hertz service dept. told them that it just needs pads.

 

Thats not right is it? As pads wear, the system should self adjust, right? I suspect something else is going on. Air in brake line, or leak in system and low on fluid? Or problem with Master cyl?

 

Thanks guys,

 

Pyro

 

Edit after talking to my folks this AM: I don't know why I thought that hydrolic disk brakes "self adjusted", and that the pedal would stay in the same place as the pads wore, just thought so, maybe something I heard somewhere.

 

But my dad tells me in his "03 Subaru Outback owners manual, it says that when the pedal is getting close to the floor, it's time to renew the pads. Hmmmm. I must have been wrong. We'll install new pads and see what happens.

 

No, I think you're right that disc brakes are self adjusting. As the pads wear the pistons extend to make up the difference in pad thickness. The extra space behind the piston is then occupied by brake fluid and the level in the reservoir drops.

 

The master cylinder piston is open to the reservoir for part of its travel, so the fluid from the reservior is pushed into the lines. If not all of that fluid returns because of pad wear, the difference is made up from the reservoir. So the height of the brake pedal should not change.

 

I wonder what the manual says, exactly. If it does state that a low pedal is caused by worn pads, please let me know.

 

My guess is that there is air in the system and it need to be bled.

[pyromanic]

Did it yesterday. No problems. And I really appreciate the help guys. It was quite simle, as I expected, and as you stated.

 

Steve, an update on the manual: What my dad interpreted from the manual was not what the manual actually said. He's pushing 80 and and his brain doesn't work like it used to. Pretty heartbreaking actually. I read the sections he was refering to, and he was misunderstanding the information. I'll have to paraphrase:

 

Brake inspection: (1) Check pedel for freeplay. If there's more than _____ inches of free play, see your authorized Subaru dealer. Blah blah balh....

 

(2) The brake pads have a built in (noise maker) wear indicator. When the pads are worn to a certain point, you'll hear an obnoxious scraping sound. If you hear this sound, see your authorized Subaru dealer.

 

Dad let these two ideas blend in his mind and................

 

Well any way, I installed new pads all the way around, and it really didn't make any difference with the pedal freeplay. We went round twice, bleeding, and it definatly helped. I thought we should have made a couple more circuits, but he was tired and hurting, the pedal feels WAY better, and he called it a day. I thing ther's room for improvement, but he's satified. Actually, I drove the car around town for a half hour, and tell ya what, it stops better than my lifted '85 GL. (it's got 4 whl disk too)

 

Probably next time I'm up in Bend, I'll try to talk him into bleeding some more. Just for theck of it.

 

Again, thanks for your help gents. Later....

 

Pyro

 

No, I think you're right that disc brakes are self adjusting. As the pads wear the pistons extend to make up the difference in pad thickness. The extra space behind the piston is then occupied by brake fluid and the level in the reservoir drops.

 

The master cylinder piston is open to the reservoir for part of its travel, so the fluid from the reservior is pushed into the lines. If not all of that fluid returns because of pad wear, the difference is made up from the reservoir. So the height of the brake pedal should not change.

 

I wonder what the manual says, exactly. If it does state that a low pedal is caused by worn pads, please let me know.

 

My guess is that there is air in the system and it need to be bled.