Guest jclay Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Hi all, I haven't been posting much lately, the '97 Legacy L wgn i bought in march has been running like a dream... It is time for new brakes, so a few questions have come up. Ceramic pads...are they worth the extra dough? What are the benefits? Any brand reccomendations out there? Also, the only issue I've had with this car is a persistant high pitched squeak from the front brakes, I've tried the "stops squeak" stuff on the pads, which helped briefly, are there any long term fixes out there? Rotors...could they be causeing the squeak/squeal? What are the signs that they need to be replaced? The brake hardware...I'm not sure what to call the little things that fit over the pads...are the necessary, and if so, is that a dealer only part? Is there any hazard in replacing the front brakes/ rotors without doing the rears at the same time? Thanks in advance for all input, it is always appreciated! Cheers, Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Hi all, I haven't been posting much lately, the '97 Legacy L wgn i bought in march has been running like a dream... It is time for new brakes, so a few questions have come up. Ceramic pads...are they worth the extra dough? What are the benefits? Any brand reccomendations out there? Also, the only issue I've had with this car is a persistant high pitched squeak from the front brakes, I've tried the "stops squeak" stuff on the pads, which helped briefly, are there any long term fixes out there? Rotors...could they be causeing the squeak/squeal? What are the signs that they need to be replaced? The brake hardware...I'm not sure what to call the little things that fit over the pads...are the necessary, and if so, is that a dealer only part? Is there any hazard in replacing the front brakes/ rotors without doing the rears at the same time? Thanks in advance for all input, it is always appreciated! Cheers, Jared Axxis, Mintex, Carbotech, EBC, etc. I've read some stuff about them at www.subarureviews.com and there doesn't seem to be much consistent as far as brake dusting. Almost every review that says less, is followed by a review that says more. I DID see one brand that seemed to chew up rotors! I'm tempted to say stick with stock unless you are racing/autoX ing or something. Seems like most of my cars get rear brakes every-other time fronts are done. 70% of braking forces are on the front. As long as the rears are working OK, I say don't touch 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Jared, I also have a 97 Legacy L wagon, mine is fixing to turn 300,000 miles most of these or stop and go miles from mail del. You will do fine with the semi metalic pads from Auto Zone and the 30.00 dollar rotors they have. You dont need the little backing plates, theirs come with the metal back just put a little anti squeal on the back of pad. The most important thing I have learned about brakes is dont waste your time turning a rotor buy a new one. I go through around two to three sets of front brakes for each rear set. Be sure to remove some brake fluid before pushing pistons back in calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Ceramic brakes are hard on the rotors. Also they work best when hot, this is very disconcerting the first time you step on the brake pedal, especially in colder climates. The Ceramic Brake Pads tend to overheat and warp factory rotors. Most Sites i have seen on this subject have stated that they work well with beefier aftermarket rotors, but tend to warp the factory rotors. Personally i would just use semi-metalic as i wouldnt want to risk warping the rotors. Food for thought http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakecomments_all.jsp?make=EBC&model=Greenstuff+brake+pads&group=null and http://naioa.com/impalabb/viewtopic.php?t=210&sid=25b4803f83a6b08d9ba2833a5c824c25 and http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html Also make sure you are buying TRUE ceramic brake pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 low dust and performs like stock. Like TC says just buy new rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve530 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Ceramic brakes are hard on the rotors. Also they work best when hot, this is very disconcerting the first time you step on the brake pedal, especially in colder climates. The Ceramic Brake Pads tend to overheat and warp factory rotors. Most Sites i have seen on this subject have stated that they work well with beefier aftermarket rotors, but tend to warp the factory rotors. Personally i would just use semi-metalic as i wouldnt want to risk warping the rotors. Food for thought http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakecomments_all.jsp?make=EBC&model=Greenstuff+brake+pads&group=null and http://naioa.com/impalabb/viewtopic.php?t=210&sid=25b4803f83a6b08d9ba2833a5c824c25 and http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html Also make sure you are buying TRUE ceramic brake pads From the last link: CeramicCeramic pads still have metal fibers (about 15% vs. about 40% for semi-metallic) but they are copper instead of steel and therefore cause less wear and transfer heat better. They don't fade as easily as other pads, cool faster, last longer, and are effectively silent, as the sound they genereate is outside of the human range of hearing. Dogs will go crazy thought. The dust created by ceramic pads is also very light in color so your wheels look cleaner. I've never heard that ceramic pads cause more rotor wear or overheat the rotors more than other pads. I have Akebono ceramic pads on my BMW and they are great. Very light colored dust and not much of it. Good initial bite with no fade in normal driving and very, very good modulation. IMHO, these are as good as the stock Jurid pads. Aren't the OEM pads on the 97 Legacy OBW ceramic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve530 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 ... Also, the only issue I've had with this car is a persistant high pitched squeak from the front brakes, I've tried the "stops squeak" stuff on the pads, which helped briefly, are there any long term fixes out there? ... The brake hardware...I'm not sure what to call the little things that fit over the pads...are the necessary, and if so, is that a dealer only part?... Is there any hazard in replacing the front brakes/ rotors without doing the rears at the same time? Jared, those things that fit over the pads are anti-squeal shims. If those are missing, putting those in may help with the squeal. The rotors will not cause squeal. The squeal is from the pads moving around in the caliper. Replacing the front rotors and pads without replacing the rear rotors and pads is not a problem. Most of the braking comes power from the front by design, and most of the wear occurs there, too. Most cars I've dealt with wear out the fronts about twice as fast as the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I've never heard that ceramic pads cause more rotor wear or overheat the rotors more than other pads. i had a set of ceramic pads on my 99 dodge avenger and i used to drive it really hard(gas,brakes,etc) i found that the rotors got cooked after about a month.not to mention they turned black. if i ever go ceramic again,i'm gonna also go with slotted/drilled rotors so i don't cook a set of stock legacy rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Jared, those things that fit over the pads are anti-squeal shims. If those are missing, putting those in may help with the squeal. The rotors will not cause squeal. The squeal is from the pads moving around in the caliper. Replacing the front rotors and pads without replacing the rear rotors and pads is not a problem. Most of the braking comes power from the front by design, and most of the wear occurs there, too. Most cars I've dealt with wear out the fronts about twice as fast as the front. Steve you are right about the pads moving that causes the squeal, but a rotor out of round might also cause the pads to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The rotors need to be replaced if they are worn too thin, there are deep grooves,or if they are warped/non-parallel. If a big ridge has formed near the outside of the rotor, it's probably too thin. The thickness can properly be measured with a mic if it's borderline. Take a ball point pen and draw a line across the rotor. If the line doesn't show up all the way across, the grooves are too deep. Finally, spin the wheel with the car jacked up and listen for the slight noise the pads make as they drag on the turning rotor. If this noise is consistent through an entire revolution, the rotors are not warped badly. If not, they need to be replaced. Also remember that you should replace BOTH rotors at the same time even if one is "OK" because it can cause brake balance issues to the point of being unsafe if you have one new rotor and one old. Definitely check the condition of the rear brakes, but the pads may not need replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 That is good information Snowman but for me its two sets of pads and then new rotors. I dont even waste the time anymore to get my 24.00 mic from Harbor Freight out of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve530 Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 i had a set of ceramic pads on my 99 dodge avenger and i used to drive it really hard(gas,brakes,etc) i found that the rotors got cooked after about a month.not to mention they turned black. if i ever go ceramic again,i'm gonna also go with slotted/drilled rotors so i don't cook a set of stock legacy rotors. What brand of pads were those, Bert. Maybe all ceramic pads are equal, but some are more equal than others. I've had ceramic pads on my BMW for about a year with no problems. No squeal, not much dust, and not rotor damage as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve530 Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Steve you are right about the pads moving that causes the squeal, but a rotor out of round might also cause the pads to move. I guess you mean that they are warped, not out of round. I suppose this is possible, but I think that the warped rotors would be more noticable as a pedal pulsation. Eiher way, the fix is the same. Ant-squeal shims and compound. BTW, I use anti-sieze compound on the backs of the pads. Works great and you have to have it around, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 What brand of pads were those, Bert. Maybe all ceramic pads are equal, but some are more equal than others. I've had ceramic pads on my BMW for about a year with no problems. No squeal, not much dust, and not rotor damage as far as I can tell. http://www.sullivantire.com/pdfs/bendixbrakes.pdf these are the brake pads i used-bendix CT-3 granted they were really quiet an dust free.now that i think of it maybe it wasn't the ceramic pads that fried the rotors.could have been from the old pads. What brand of pads were those, Bert. are you asking my legacy that?:-p (that's her name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinC Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 If you don't mind the extra money I would go with stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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