torque binding

[nosajh9]

i just bought a 95 impreza l 1.8 with an automatic transmission. the car has 98,000 miles on it and was very well maintained. i bought it for $2300 (they wanted $3200) from a subaru dealer in cleveland. anyway, that stuttering in tight turns was the only thing that made me kind of hesitate to buy the car. i asked the dealer why it does that, and he claimed that most older subarus do that, and that it is "normal" in an AWD car. i decided to wait on buying the car so i could ask some people if this statement was true, and if AWD cars do this. a friend of mines dad has always owned subaru cars and said that his have all done this and that it shouldnt be a problem. he said that when he asked his dealer mechanic, that they told him to change the transmission fluid and do figure eights in a parking lot to help "seat" some bull************. another friend of mine has a 96 impreza and said that hers does the same thing. a guy i work with has an audi quttro, and said he gets the same stuttering effect in his AWD. i bought the car after i felt comfortable with what everybody said. i figured it was normal, never have driven AWD before. anway, the car has been great, runs real good, and is very clean inside and out. this stutter on the tight turns is a little bothersome though, because im still not sure if this is normal, or if every tight turn i make, im slowly destroying my tranny. ive read alot on the boards, and it sounds like this torque binding thing. from the other posts ive read, some people say this really isnt a huge issue, while others say it is destroying the transmission. also, some say to just change the tranny fluid and add some additive to solve the problem. others have said that it is a $800 job and you might as well go get a new tranny and put it in. im confused! btw ,the car shifts fine and its only a slight stutter on sharp turns at slow speeds. anyway, heres a few simplified questions:

 

1) is this a huge problem that i need to immediately have checked out. is my transmission about to go? is it safe to drive the car?

 

2) when changing the fluid, do you have any recommendations, like fluid to use (weight etc..,) and how to flush. i have read some say that power flushing is bad. also, whats the additive to use (name,brand etc..) that other posts have mentioned. is it worth changing the fluid? mine looks very clean as is.

 

3) i have read that the clutch packs going bad are what create torque binding, how big of a job would it be to replace these myself?

 

4) when i bought the car, i wasnt planning on doing mods or upgrades, just change the oil and drive daily 15 miles to work. is this torque bind something that i may be able to deal with through the life of the car, or is it something that will progressively get worse over time? i really dont want to dump money into it if its not really a big issue. like i said, the transmission shifts smooth , and the car drives and runs very good.

 

if you have read this far, i gotta give you props!! :disco:

 

if you could help me out by passing on some advice, that would be greatly appreciated. links, advice, pics, anything! thanks alot, jason. hundog@gmail.com

 

[Dickensheets]

oh my eyes!

[nipper]

Damn .. that hurt to read.

 

OK torque bind is caused by fluid leaking past the duty solenoid (if i read it correctly). I am going to assume this car is an automatic. Have you looked under the hood to see if you have a fuse holder marked FWD. If you do, throw a fuse in it and see if the problem goes away. I have been driving my OBW for 2 months with the fuse in it and no isues. I just dont have the cash to get it fixed. Seems like you can drive as long as you want like this. I havent seen a single post of anyone actually hurting thier car buy doing this. I think once you have torque bind, the damage is done, and you cant make it any worse by driving like this.

The clutch pack starts getting chewed up by torque bind. In theory anyone can do anything themselves with the right tools and a place to wrok, just depends upon your skill level. I too wondered if the clutch pack was something one could buy and install, but from what I have seen in prior posts, its a fast repair for a dealership to do, and runs about 800.00.

Transmission power flush. I think as long as they dont use a chemical flush at the same time its ok. When you drain an auto tranny there is still a large volume of old fluid in the torque converter, so the only way really to get it out is with a good flush.

Check your tranny fluid. If it isnt burnt, and a nice red color, it should be safe to flush. If its brown and burnt, I would be hesitant to do it.

Hope this helps. My tranny has 180K on it and has nice fluid, but im still afraid to flush it.

 

Joe

[MDW25gt]

I had a '90 legacy wagon with the torque bind. took it to the Subaru stealer in Massilon. They did $1400 worth of work. At least they took my money! Then on the way home the torque bind was still there. Took it back, and they claim they could not make it happen again. So I was stuck by the Subaru stealer in Massilon.

 

Ended up putting a fuse in the FWD holder and just drove it. Only 2wd but torque bind was gone.

 

Good luck! Don't take it to Massilon!

[nipper]

Sounds like they took your money and never did a thing to the car. Very odd.

 

 

Joe

[Gnuman]

Sounds like they took your money and never did a thing to the car. Very odd.

 

 

Joe

 

Sadly, Joe, that is not all that odd at all. . . That is part of why we call them stealerships. MDW25gt, good call steering folks away from the thief in Massilon.

 

Now on to the original poster:

First off, Dude, turn the underline off. That is actually painful to read. Not to worry though, my eyes will stop bleeding soon. . .

 

As for the stuttering in tight turns, no that is not normal. The longer it is left like that, the worse it will get (progressively, but slowly if you do not drive hard with it). You will eventually want to get it fixed. You live in a place where it snows, and one of the great things about Subarus is how they drive in the snow. THis is because of the AWD drivetrain. If changing the tranny fluid does not fix it (in a large number of cases it does), then you will need to get a new clutch pack and install it. If you plan to go that route, then I recomend that locate and purchase a copy of the Field Service Manual for your model and year, particularly where the tranny is concerned. With this manual in hand, and assuming adequate skills, tools and workspace, you should be able to fix this problem correctly. My personal recomendation is to read up on the procedure and be sure you are comfortable with it before you buy any parts or put wrench to bolt. Before that point, you still have the option of taking it to a shop to get repaired. Good luck to you whichever option you choose. Oh and welcome to the board, and congratulations on your "new" Subaru.

[JrFreak]

I had a '90 legacy wagon with the torque bind. took it to the Subaru stealer in Massilon. They did $1400 worth of work. At least they took my money! Then on the way home the torque bind was still there. Took it back, and they claim they could not make it happen again. So I was stuck by the Subaru stealer in Massilon.

 

Ended up putting a fuse in the FWD holder and just drove it. Only 2wd but torque bind was gone.

 

Good luck! Don't take it to Massilon!

 

I would have sued them. You paid for a service that they never provided.

[Mike W]

This weekend I'm planning to try a low-budget fix on my '93 Leg. The plan is to swap out the rear extension housing and with one from a trans that died of other causes. If I'm able to pull this off I'll only be out $4.63 for the paper gasket and ATF to refill. Wish me luck.

If it doesn't work, I guess I'll be in the market for a 98 or newer trans which is supposed to be less prone to torque bind and hopefully will work in my '93 car.

[Andyjo]

to me torque bind doesn't sound that bad... not as bad as driving a 2wd vehicle... i'd rather have a little rumble than lack of a wheel with power

[nipper]

hehe say that now untill the tranny chews itself up ... never a pleasant sound

 

 

nipper

[Mike W]

to me torque bind doesn't sound that bad... not as bad as driving a 2wd vehicle... i'd rather have a little rumble than lack of a wheel with power

 

Yeah the torque bind might be a good thing if you can keep the car on snow and ice forever. I've been driving in AWD for a month or so and it's not bad but kinda sucks trying to take wide corners. The bind gets worse as the clutchpack chews itself up and gauls the shaft and munchs the output bearing, etc. There's gotta be frags and stuff getting in the ATF...probably not good for the tranny. The torque bind is definitely better than 2wd. First time I had it in 2wd I got stuck at a stop sign at the top of a hill. There was a wet metal plate on the ground and zero traction. I actually had to back it down the hill take the fuse out. That's how to humiliate a Subaru.

[nosajh9]

im now officially confused! the dealer told me that the worst case of running a transmission under longterm torque bind would be that the clutch pack will wear out, and that it has no affect on the operation of your transmission. ?

[nipper]

well thats a 2500.00 gamble (or whatever a tranny goes for rebuilt). he may be right, may be wrong. BUt it will eventually make the car very hard to drive except for in a straight line. You can forget parallel parking or right or left turns. Not only will ths stress the transmission, but it will eavily load the center universal joint and carrier bearing, possibly your rear wheel bearings, and will tear up your rear tires with time.

 

 

nipper

[nosajh9]

i posted the original with all those annoying underlines, sorry. bought the car last april, and it has slight torque bind, but only on sharp turns. i paid 2300 for the car (95 impreza AWD 1.8 4eat 95000 mi.), not too bad a deal imo. i read that to replace both clutch packs (which i read causes torque bind), that it would cost about $800. i decided not to get the work done right away considering i just bought the car and wasnt sure how reliable it was gonna be in the first place. i drained and refilled the ATF with new stuff from the subaru dealer, and it seemed to help the "torque bind" a little, but not fully. its strange though, i noticed when i go on longer trips in the car, the torque bind will go away for a few days, and then come back. it hasnt gotten any worse than when i bought the car, and like i said, its only on sharp turns. another thing i find kinda strange, is when the car is "cold", i have absolutely no binding, its only after the car warms up that i notice it. anyway, thers some links with pics of the car, and if any of you can recommend any suggestions or comments, that would be awesome!

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/nosajh9/IMG_0277.jpg

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/nosajh9/IMG_0278.jpg

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/nosajh9/IMG_0275.jpg

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/nosajh9/IMG_0274.jpg

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/nosajh9/IMG_0280.jpg