slothoncanvas Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I have a serious qestion. It's probably been asked many times before on this board by newer members, but i'm going to ask anyway. I have a 2000 Forester, and in not too long of time i'll be in the market for a new car. I am considering trading in my Forester and getting a Wrangler or something in that market. That or keeping my Forester, lifting and tire equiping it, and buying a more economic car. My question is about performance. Will my Subaru's AWD system perform as well as a Jeep's 4 wheel drive sytem? I'm aware of the exceptional handling and control my car gives me on the road in the rain and snow we get here sometimes... But how exactly does the AWD work in serious trail, mud, and snow conditions?! again... information and advice is greatly appreciated. I'm new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudduck Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 What kind of 4xing are you wanting to do? easier logging roads, snow and mud? Or seruios rock and bottomless mud bogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbag_89 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 hey mudduck do you know Eye ball and Rusty nail off the cb radio over here in oregon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudduck Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 hey mudduck do you know Eye ball and Rusty nail off the cb radio over here in oregon? I am out here in North Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothoncanvas Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 um... more likely serious rock and water. as in... purchasing and using a snorkle for whatever vehicle i decide on. oh yeah... and a side note, are there any Xterra fans out there? because, though they haven't been around a while, they are very reasonably priced and i've heard very good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I would say set your Forester up for offroading - they look super cool lifted. You probably could spend substantailly less than getting a new Jeep and have a lift, tires, snorkel, and a 5 SPD D/R transmission from an EA82 car. And that would be awesome. As for Xterra's - I would stay away from those, but that's just me. My friend had a early model of it and I was unimpressed by the quality of the vehicle. It's fine for on- and off-road driving and I don't know much about serious offroading w/ Xterras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Nothing beats a Jeep or an old Toy offroad, serious mud and rocks, Ken's brat may be the closest you can get to one of those, and in that case driver skill more than makes up for not having live axles at both ends. Unless you are doing some real hardcore offroading, the Forester should be more than adequate. Depending on where you live, go out with the Hatch Patrol or the Oregon offroad club, and see how they do in an old school subie. As far as AWD and 4WD, 4WD will always be better off road, and lockers will help even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Xterra is not that dependable. a Subaru is not a jeep. If you are doing serious rock crawling, ild go with the Jeep. Jeep is the grandaddy of them all. Now finding a more economical 4wd vehical that will go off road and be dependable for years, nothing beats a subaru. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFviper Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why not buy an old Toyota, or Nissan truck. They seem to go forever, there are some I saw on ebay close to 300,000 miles that still run. Serious offroading is not something you can do in a Forester unless you do some serious modification Like this guy did:http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41634&highlight=lifted+forester. This would probobly cost a lot, in both time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 you should keep your forester,and buy a older hatch, lift it, put on super swampers, weld the rear diff, and that would be a perfect off-roader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 My advise: Keep the forester as a mostly street vehicle and use it. Buy a shibox old truck, 4x4, and use it t get your off roading urges out. Using a soob as a daily driver and hardcore off-roader is asking for trouble unless you're a really skilled driver who always picks the perfect line on the trails. As far as my experience goes, I've trash-tested a few vehicles and seen others been taken further. 198? Isuzu Trooper II. 21 miles of mayhem. severe body damage. Whole undercarriage was white with rock dust. Popped a full set (4) of tires off the beads. Finally broke rear spring and it still dragged its self out of the woods. 1992 Jeep wrangler. 4 banger, manual tranny. been rolled multiple times. jumped extensively, highest 8'. Broke slipjoint on rear driveshaft, bent front spring. Windshield broke. Starter fried. Other than that, badarse ride. deffiniately would endorse. 1983 Ford F250. 2wd (welded diff), 300 I6 automatic. weak point is the tranny, lost reverse. Major body damage, but the chasssis is rugged like you wouldn't believe. The front of this truck has spent more time bouncing off of trees, rocks, stumps, and still works fine. Insane what it will smash through. Wish it was 4wd. 198? nissan truck 4x4 w/ 240Z motor. Unkillable. my neighbors had the radiator wrapped around the block and it wouldn't die. IFS ended up bending so the tire rubbed continuously. Truck went on multiple beat runs before being retired to the J/Y. Indestructable motor. These are vehicles I can testify for. I would advise for an early 90's jeep, just because of manuverability and ruggedness. good on gas too. Always check the framerails where the rear shackles attach before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 My advice? Find a mid-late 90's Cherokee. they are bulletproof, and pretty good stock. Lifts are easy, and the 4.0/AW4 combo will last WELL over 250K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 My question is about performance. Will my Subaru's AWD system perform as well as a Jeep's 4 wheel drive sytem? I'm aware of the exceptional handling and control my car gives me on the road in the rain and snow we get here sometimes... But how exactly does the AWD work in serious trail, mud, and snow conditions?! again... information and advice is greatly appreciated. I'm new. 1) No; Subaru is AWD. Jeeps have 4WD with real transfercases. 2) You will sit and spin. Open diffs front, rear, and center. Momentum will be what carries you through and AWD assisting. If you want to do 4wheel'n then buy something with 4 Wheel Drive. If you want a good daily driver and maybe go on some easy trails or minimum maintanace roads then AWD is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I have wheeled it ALL @ 1 time or another, and I curently have: '95 Suberban w/32's no lift, '84 Burb w/6" lift 35's and a spool up front, '83 GL wagon 4" BYB lift. I will just give a general IMO on this for what it's worth. 1) GEARS! If U want to do the hard stuff gears and a locker/spool will get U farther than any other mod. So if U want to use the Forester for off road, an EA82 5spd D/R would be the ONLY way to go. 2) Ground clearance and body protection, without them U are doomed to get hung up and bash stuff. So U will need bumpers and a lift. 3) Driver exp. U can NEVER have too much;) I think that a well equipt Subaru is JUST as good off road as anything else, save a full on rock buggy. I just traded my "trail rig", an F150 4x4 with 33's, for my '83 wagon (4"BYB) and I know for a fact that I can run all the same stuff with the wagon. U just have to pick the right line and drive it right. Look @ Q-man, he did the Rubicon in a Brat w/4" lift, welded rear, and 27" tires! Lots of people will tell U that there is NO WAY U could TOUCH the Rubicon in any thing less than 35's and locked front and rear:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 They take stock jeeps on the rubicon all the time. Well equipt is the key there. A Forester with a 2" lift is not well equipt. Forester Ranger's got a well equipt Forester; I would check his out if you are going that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 My advise:Keep the forester as a mostly street vehicle and use it. Buy a shibox old truck, 4x4, and use it t get your off roading urges out. Using a soob as a daily driver and hardcore off-roader is asking for trouble unless you're a really skilled driver who always picks the perfect line on the trails. Very well put. I totally agree. Think about it like this. If you wanna build your Forester to be a capable offroader, you'll need the following: Bigger tires, lift of some kind, and possibly a transfer case or at least a dual range tranny swap. These will set you back at least 2 grand, especially if you have someone else do the labor. This will degrade the on road capability of your forester quite a bit. People tend to forget the Forester is an Impreza with a different body on it. After all is said an done, before you even wheel it, you'll have completely destroyed your car's resale value. You're much better getting a pre built used 4X. As example, I recently saw a 79 Toyota 4x with a 4 inch lift, 33s, roll bar and bumper for $800. The add claimed that it ran and drove fine. Even in the Soob enthusiast's wildest dreams, a lifted Soob won't hold a candle to a solid axle Toy. Trust me, I'm growing to learn that first hand. And I'm pretty sure I can say I speak after as much experience bihind the wheel of off road soobs as anybody on the planet. In any and every condition. This is my opinion after taking my open diff'd toy thru the same trails that I took my last Soob thru with its welded diff. I made it with the Soob, but only after exploding my diff and adding a few pretty good dents to it. The Toy (all but stock, with only a 3 inch lift and blading 33s) easily walked right thru it without a scratch. If you tried that in a Forester with mods, it would kick the shnit out of it. Repairs would be costly. If you really wanna 4X a Soob, then buy an older one and build it. 1500 bucks worth of mods on a 700 dollar 80's Soob will make it pretty capable, and you'll still be able to sell it for @ 1500 if you don't completely trash it. My 2 cents. EZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester_Ranger Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 As others have said and my reply to your PM. AWD isn't as good off-road as a 4wd. You can make your Forester more off-roadable. But still won't match the capabilities of truck based 4x4. There are no easy modifications for Foresters. You will need someone experienced in modifing old and new Subarus. You could do as i did and swap trannys for a ea82 dual-range turning your AWD into a part-time 4wd with low range. This will cost you at least $2000. There are 2" suspension and 2" body lifts available. Each costing $500-$1000 per lift kit. Off-road tire choices are very limited. It's hard to find a 27-29" mud-terrain tires. You will need atleast 6" or more lift to fit larger tires. All these mods will make your Forester less enjoyable to drive on the street. It won't handle and perform like a car anymore. You should only do it if you really like Subaru's and want something that is different. But buying a real 4x4 is a much easier and better option for off-road use. My favorite choices for a new 4x4 are Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 05 or newer Xterra's with off-road package, Upcoming Toyota FJ Cruiser, Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Tacoma, Land Rover LR3 and Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra-drive. My Favorite old school 4x4's are Toyota pick-ups, 4-runners and Land cruisers, Jeeps, Pinzgauers, and Volvo 303's. I don't have any experience driving these vehicles but am impressed what I seen and read about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Wrangler all the way...... we went from a forester to a wrangler. Night and day difference. If i was you i would keep the forester and buy an older wrangler "yj" and use it for the off road rig. You can get them cheap as heck in my local newspaper....I see you are in Reading....if you want me to keep my eyes open for you I will since I am only about 20 miles away. PM me if you want to talk a little more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 i have a bunch of subarus, they are great. take a hell of a beating for a car. but thats the problem, they will always be a car. sad to say, im gonna be offroading my toyota 4runner next year, cuz im tired of bouncing all over the place, and having to ram rocks with speed to get over them. jeeps are for suckers =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I have to say, a stock Jeep is NO STRONGER than a stock Subaru. I have seen WAY MORE busted Jeep parts than Subaru on the trail (I'm talking stock to stock here) Now an erly (pre '86) Toyota truck, hard to beat for durability. But I will stick with the Subaru for the WOW factor when going over the big stuff:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 ya, thats another thing, the "wow factor" its really cool to see the looks you get when your station wagon goes threw some pretty nasty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyirishmen Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 My friends went out for wheeling last weekend one was in a 1972 chevy half ton short box with 38's, and the other in a 1986 subaru D/R with AA lift and some 30" tires. Well I was quite suprised to see the stupid monster truck get stuck in some ruts and then after he got pulled out the subaru cruised right through. I think my buddy (Corey the owner of the truck) was pretty darned upset when he saw a vehicle half the price and half the size pull that off. I think its the one thing the subarus have over any straight axle vehicle (more center clearance below the diff). I don't see why you wouldn't dare to be different with your forester and do it up right by lifting it, putting large tires on it and doing a dual range conversion. Yes onroad drive ability will be hindered slightly but you will be the most unique vehicle on the road. I am ashamed of all you guys trying to persuade someone to purchase something other than a subaru, I thought this was called the Ultimate Subaru Message Board, not the you need to buy a Toyota because a subaru can't hack it board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 A-men! I do relise that every one is just trying to be realistic, and I respect that. But damn! U guys need a little more respect for the Subarus off road performance. Every thing has +'s and -'s off road, but the Subaru platform has an afull lot of +'s going for it. Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 you should keep your forester,and buy a older hatch, lift it, put on super swampers, weld the rear diff, and that would be a perfect off-roader i'm with you guys, if he didnt lift his forester, at least i stayed with subaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I've broken more parts on my subaru w/ the wheeling I do than on all my beater rigs combined. Yeah, I still wheel the subie when it runs. I prefer to be able to say, yeah, my wagon made it through that. But I know its limitations, as it has painfully pointed out to me when it exceeds them. it has taken a hell of a beating for a car, but a truck would have had a better chance of staying together under the same circumstances. In my book, a forester owned by a kid shouldn't be turned into a wheeling vehicle. If its being used as a daily driver, hardcore wheeling should be avoided. Walking, which I have been reduced to, sucks. It takes me an hour to walk to work, and I'm not getting paid for it. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but I know first hand how easy it is to trash a subie in the woods. It's harder to trash a truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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