Starting out on the wrong foot!

[dmcdlrn]

Ok, so I purchased a 93 loyale in july to use as my winter car this year. Thing was in pretty good shape minus some serious outer shell rust. I picked away at the body and got that nice and clean. I replaced the drive axle on the front left (twice due to a bad part). So I go to get it inspected, it fails twice for oil on oil pan(which I feel is due to the skid plate which I'm sure your all aware of) a small pinhole in the exhast which I never heard or saw, blown rear strut which I never saw, a ball joint which we couldn't get to shake... so I got some of those fixed (not the ball joint, they were just looking for business I think) and took it to the 3rd place and they poped it on their immediately. Sweet! But then I went to drive it home... 2 hours into the drive it dies on the side of the highway. After getting a truck and flatbed to move it the rest of the way, getting the stupid truck and trailer with my loyale in it stuck in the mud and getting the state popo's to pull it out, I got home at 6 am. So, now whats wrong with the friggin thing?

 

It just sputtered a few times and died out... I suspect timing belt. Does this sound right, and what are we looking at for a job. I have looked at the job in my haynes, but anything else I would look for? Any way to tell if its the belt? I suppose I could check compression.

 

Also, it had the check engine light on in it which I figured was for either bad battery which it had, or o2 sensor or something. I followed the instructions in the haynes on reading the codes off the 02 light in the ecm, but all I could get it to do is puls the 5 short flashes for car type.

 

I'm sorry I know some of this could probly be found with alittle more searching, I have done alittle, but I am really pressed for time right now. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I should cut bait now or keep with it. I have heard they are really good cars, but I have done nothing but fix stuff since I got it. The heat also blows hot sometimes, I think there is a clog in the heater core.

 

Thanks!

[idosubaru]

the timing covers take all of a couple minutes to remove, just 10mm bolts and the left and right covers come off, allowing you to look at the belt.

 

compression test will also show a broken belt.

 

if you here *slapping* while trying to start the car, that's the belt flopping around, but that's not a good idea as it could wrap onto something it shouldn't.

 

remove the distributor cap is another method people use because the drivers side belt is the most likely to break. if the rotor isn't turning then the belt is broke. i don't like that method because it doesn't show you anything about the passengers side, which doesn't break as often, but can. and, you can remove the covers in about the same amount of time.

[zyewdall]

One thing to be aware of when checking by taking the covers off is that the teeth may have stripped off the belt, so it won't move, but it will still look fine for tension.

 

It seems like a timing belt change is the first order of business with any EA82 that you don't know the history of, since no one ever seems to change them at the recommended interval. I had one break about a week after buying it.

 

You must have strict inspections up in Maine. Every EA82 I'ver ever seen has been covered in oil all over the bottom, and no one cares. I don't understand how the skid plate could contribute to more oil on there though unless you're thinking that it's catching the oil instead of letting it fall on the ground. All they inspect here is an emissions test, and with the state budget shortfalls this year, we might do away with that too.

 

Zeke

 

the timing covers take all of a couple minutes to remove, just 10mm bolts and the left and right covers come off, allowing you to look at the belt.

 

compression test will also show a broken belt.

 

if you here *slapping* while trying to start the car, that's the belt flopping around, but that's not a good idea as it could wrap onto something it shouldn't.

 

remove the distributor cap is another method people use because the drivers side belt is the most likely to break. if the rotor isn't turning then the belt is broke. i don't like that method because it doesn't show you anything about the passengers side, which doesn't break as often, but can. and, you can remove the covers in about the same amount of time.

[dmcdlrn]

Maine is a rough state on inspection... its all tree huggers for government here. When I changed the oil, as soon as I pulled the plug, it overshoots that little access hole through the skid plate and lands on the other side of the hole, evenly distributing oil all over the underside of the engine and skid plate as well as my arms, close, creeper, and floor. Needless to day, I was alittle pissed off. I have been a big time american car buyer for many reasons, but I decided to take this car as a chance to see first hand the "longevity and reliability of foreign cars"

 

Taking the covers off looks harder then just a few bolts... I can't even get my hands in there let alone remove the covers. Upon quick inspection this morning I conclude that somebody has had it all off before as the 10 mm bolts you speak of are not fully in, and the fan's also have bolts not all the way in. I wonder if somebody beat the piss out of this thing and didn't know how to fix broken crap. I won't have time till this weekend atleast to try to take the covers off, but I will try then.

 

Thanks!!!

[Numbchux]

I had one break about a week after buying it

 

mine broke not ten minutes after buying mine...

 

and that sounds like what mine did, was driving along, and noticed that I didn't have any power anymore, I looked at the dash, and the tach said zero.

 

I checked the codes, and it was a code 13, for crank angle sensor. Which made me very worried. Then I realized that it wasn't getting a signal because the disty wans't turning, which was because the belt was broken.

 

anyway, did the tach die when the car did? maybe try pulling it with another car for a little while, let in the clutch, and see if the tach is working or not. That might work better depending on your situation. it's not a surefire way to determine anything, but it'll get you started.

[idosubaru]

well if it's an EA82 the covers should be very easy to remove. it might be a little tight, but no big deal i don't think to get the right and left covers off. just need to have a peak. sounds like the thing might not be in great shape or someone did some hack work to it, hopefully you'll get it fixed. not exactly a prime subaru example to make a good impression with. the EA82 is a nice motor though, they are very durable.

[hooziewhatsit]

to check the passenger side, the electric fan comes off with 4 bolts, then you have much more room to remove the cover. Usually don't even have to unplug the fan, the lead should be long enough to just set it out of the way.

 

For the driver side, I would just check to see if the rotor spins or not. I would do that first, since it's easiest and you don't have to remove anything else.

[dmcdlrn]

it seemed to be working fine before just dieing. It does sound alittle like a sewing machine, and it seems to have a knock or two. Mostly I have concluded that it just absolutely has 0 power whatsoever, but that maybe because I'm used to my summer car with a farily high hp to weight ratio. Those covers appear to dissapear under the crank pully.. I can't see how I can get them off without taking out atleast the ac and alternator, perhaps even the fans.

 

Oh, I am assuming by the way we have been discussing this, this is a non-interfearence motor.

 

thanks!

[Subarian]

It is a non-interference motor. You might want to remove the skid plate to change oil- it's only four bolts, and it makes it a lot easier and neater.

[idosubaru]

yes, non-interference.

there are 3 parts to the cover. the center cover requries removing the crank bolt. the side covers don't require removing anything...except maybe the fan. just look at the covers more closely and you'll see around the edges, some bolts. or pull the distributor cap and look at the rotor to see if it spins. it's very straight forward, if you're confused and think the a/c or alternator is in the way then you need someone else to work on it for you. but it's very simple.

[dmcdlrn]

if you're confused and think the a/c or alternator is in the way then you need someone else to work on it for you.

 

Ouch! In the 10 minutes I have had to look the thing over since my 6 am fiasco, the alternator and ac compressor appear in the way, not to mention the book very specifically states that you have to remove them both to get at the cover (although I realize that they are often overkill on removing things). I assure you I am expirienced enough to change timing belts, I have done it several times, but I will admit that I am not expirienced or familiar with the seemingly backwards manufacturing of subarus, which not ment as a slam, but rather everything that is on this car appears to be exact opposite of how my american cars are built (exp. spare tire, e-brake, trunk latch, and whats with not having an exhaust manafold anyways ).

 

Well long story short, atleast the drivers side timing belt is toast... don't know about the passengers yet, but that doesn't matter until I get in there anyways, at which point I would be a rather dumb mechanic to not replace both anyways.

 

Thanks guys for your help, I am still looking for info on how to do the engine codes... I unplugged that brown(I think) test connector, and turned the key on and it did nothing and the check engine light never came on. so I plugged it back in and turned the key on and the red light flashed 5 shorts for the car type... I must be missing something. Any thoughts there?

[All_talk]

Pulling the dizzy cap is a good first check... and while you're in there look for a small screw laying in the bottom, it holds the rotor to the shaft. I've seen these fall out more than once and the rotor moves... no run.

 

If you dont find the trouble there, start with the basics... fuel, spark, compression.

 

Gary

[hooziewhatsit]

Thanks guys for your help, I am still looking for info on how to do the engine codes... I unplugged that brown(I think) test connector, and turned the key on and it did nothing and the check engine light never came on. so I plugged it back in and turned the key on and the red light flashed 5 shorts for the car type... I must be missing something. Any thoughts there?

 

all you need to know about codes: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/USRM2/mick-usrm/electrical/ecucodes.html

 

basically, you should have a set of green connectors and white connectors under the hood by the fuel filter. You want to connect the white ones to read the stored codes.

 

The 5 flashes (or 6 or 7 or...) depend on the vehicle, transmission type, CA car or not... basically an ECU ID thing. Also means there aren't any codes (if you have the white's connected, I think).

[dmcdlrn]

Ok, I will try that this weekend then. Side note. I did pull the top bolts on the two covers(I now see how the covers work.. I was looking at them wrong.) and passengers side belt is fine, but drivers is blown... I will replace both hopefully this weekend.

 

Thanks a million guys!!

[robm]

There is a post on the site with the Alldata procedure for changing timing belts transcribed onto it. It is better than the Haynes version. I just went through this this weekend, and I wished I had the Alldata one to work from. Use the Search function to find it.

 

The covers are not necessarily easy to get off. Maybe in Maryland, but probably not in Maine. Certainly weren't here in BC. Salt in the air, salt on the roads, lots of snow and rain. Does this sound more like Maine or Maryland?

 

Pulling the alternator is not necessary, but pulling the drive belts probably is. I don't have AC, so I don't know if Haynes is getting carried away or not. The fan has to come out to get to the passenger side cover.

 

Getting the hang of these cars is a bit of an attitude adjustment. Once you get into the logic of it, and find out that a lot of stuff has to come off to get to things, but it comes off easily, then all is good.

 

I have worked on a bunch of different cars. These old Subarus are very easy, on par with early Hondas and Datsuns. Toyotas suck, but then they don't break down too often, so it is a wash. I have never enjoyed working on North American vehicles, they are just plain poorly designed and laid out. Weird fasteners (Torx and bizarre metrics mixed with SAE bolts) and stuff that is just plain inaccessible, requiring deep sockets and swivel joints.

Yuck!

 

And changing the oil: It may have run everywhere, but you didn't have to get the car up in the air to access it, did you? Ramps not required.

[Subarian]

You're not confused, and you can certainly do the job yourself. While you don't HAVE to remove the AC compressor and alternator, it gives you more room to work, and I always do it that way. And you should definitely replace both belts, because the other one isn't going to be far behind.

[idosubaru]

Ouch! In the 10 minutes I have had to look the thing over since my 6 am fiasco, the alternator and ac compressor appear in the way,

 

no offense meant. being blunt i guess because i'm at work, based on that i posted it was possible and you still mentioned you didn't see how they could come off. i ask other people to help me, i have no shame in that.

 

the EA82 is cake, easiest timing belt i've ever done. too bad it's two and not just one, then it'd be really easy. you shouldn't have much trouble, you'll likely take your time the first time and may want to address other items while you're in there, but it can be done in about an hour.

[zyewdall]

the EA82 is cake, easiest timing belt i've ever done. too bad it's two and not just one, then it'd be really easy. you shouldn't have much trouble, you'll likely take your time the first time and may want to address other items while you're in there, but it can be done in about an hour.

 

I used to swear at my EA82 and how difficult it was to work on after owning an EA81 and a '73 Ford pickup (no power steering, power brakes, nothing...). But now I've learned that anything with a transverse engine is way more of a pain than even the most accesory laden EA82's. I do always pull the AC and alt on mine just to make it easier to see what's going on down there, although recently I realized the pulling the radiator might be easier. Some tight clearances in front to be sure, but not that bad comparatively. Also, you only need three socket sizes for just about the entire car.

 

It seems the timing belt cover bolts are often stripped and you have to sort to break them to get them off. You can just run without timing belt covers and it simplifies everything a bit. The sides usually come off fairly easily, but the center does have to have the crank pulley removed first.

 

For oil, I go to the carwash about once a year, and use a can of the engine-brite type stuff, then with the high pressure hot soapy water wash the entire engine for about 5 minutes to get all the grime and such off. We don't have picky inspections here, but this way I can see where any leaks are coming from, and decide whether they are new, old, should be fixed, or just monitored, etc. Also make it a little less grimey to work on the engine.

 

Zeke

[dmcdlrn]

wow, you guys make it sound too easy! Hope it ends up being the way for me. I'm planing on hitting it up this saturday, I'll check out that other write up in the mean time!!!

 

 

Thanks again.

[idosubaru]

the timing covers and/or rusted bolts can be the trickiest part of the job. pry the timing covers off if the inserts just rotate inside the rear cover and the screw won't back out. gradually pry it off with a screw driver and the bolt with the insert still attached will slide out. replace it the same way if you want to keep the cover on there.

 

have some liquid wrench or pb blaster handy and spray rusty bolts good. don't use WD40, the other stuff is better.

 

the crank bolt can be tight, have a breaker bar handy for that. or just hang a socket on there and use the starter to crank the motor over and when the socket slams into the front motor mount or a conveniently placed block it'll back the bolt off too....if you're comfortable doing it that way, otherwise don't.

[calebz]

Ok, I will try that this weekend then. Side note. I did pull the top bolts on the two covers(I now see how the covers work.. I was looking at them wrong.) and passengers side belt is fine, but drivers is blown... I will replace both hopefully this weekend.

 

Thanks a million guys!!

 

Driver side runs the dizzy.. no belt, no spark;)

 

On a side note, I have no front or rear T belt covers on my wagon.. makes timing belts a 20 minute job if I'm feeling slow:D

[dmcdlrn]

ya, its definitely the drivers side belt, but I'm doing both saturday hopefully. Bolts are rusty, but the few I took out on covers came with little resistance. I find your starter and socket funny, I have only heard one other with that idea, and it worked slick, but I prefer to try breaker bar myself first. Oh, you guys hold the crank from turning how? Haynes wants me to remove starter and use the flywheel... I think thats dumb... I was thinking fifth gear and that crazy front wheel ebrake should do the trick.

[zyewdall]

I was thinking fifth gear and that crazy front wheel ebrake should do the trick.

 

Yeah. The starter method also works. For tightening it you can't use the starter though...

[hooziewhatsit]

I've had luck pulling a spark plug and shoving some nylon (or other non-fibrous) rope in the cylinder. Works for tightening the crank pulley as well.

[calebz]

I've had luck pulling a spark plug and shoving some nylon (or other non-fibrous) rope in the cylinder. Works for tightening the crank pulley as well.

 

That works quite well.

 

My preferred method is to drill a small hole in the bellhousing. I have a hardened steel rod that is about 12 inches long and fits inside the foles in the flywheel perfectly.. I just line stuff up and drop through the hole I drilled. quick, easy and painless. (although I haven't tried it since all the WRX parts came to live on my wagon.. betting its a little tighter fit now)