intake under construction

[fj401968]

Ummm, yeah. The Pcv system and any other tube that runs to the intake assembly(whether that be a pipe or whatever) is going to introduce unfiltered air to the mix at some point or another..

 

Of course there are other variables that are of considerable interest like:

 

* Which side of the filter is this air introduced on? I believe the return for the PCV system is indeed on the venturi side, however the supply side of the PCV system is coming into the airbox on the outside of the filter which is fine. Of course if the rubber gaskets that the filter gets squished between are shot or missing it's all a moot point anyway.

 

* Also even if PCV vapors were being introduced to the intake on the venturi side of the filter, we're talking about crankcase vapors, not sandy, dirty, air from the environment.

 

Tracy

[fj401968]

A stock 2.2 will pull close to 140 hp (whoopdee freakin' doo, my Dodge Decrepid runs circles around it... whoopdee freakin' doo about that too for that matter, it's a piece of junk I got for cheap and it manages to haul my family on our family trips which is all I bought it for.)

 

If you've built up an EA to pull over 140 HP, I'm duly impressed! I'm also left saying... "why?"... but, as they say on backpacking discussion groups I frequent, "HYOH" (hike your own hike).

 

I tend to be overly practical sometimes. It's just part of my nature. It's cool that you've managed to squeeze relatively high #'s out of an EA if that's your thing. As for myself, I didn't go back to a GL series Subaru because they have potential after much effort and $ to be fast. I like them for their utilitarian nature (like my slow, heavy, uncomfortable Landcruiser).

 

If I wanted to go fast, I can think of better candidates for a build-up.

 

Again, HYOH and I'm not dissing your Subaru Caleb.

 

Cheers, Tracy

 

 

New here eh?

 

...mumbles some old saying about putting your money where your mouth is......

[fj401968]

Sorry yer getting a hard time, Tracy, but the first post ranckled some I guess.

 

Guys, what he is saying is right.

....snip....

 

 

...and I don't mean to come across like I'm an untactful a$$. Like I said earlier, this medium is inefficient at best in portraying tone so I tend to save myself the carpal tunnel syndrome and just be direct and to the point.

 

Tracy

[fj401968]

Cool. What kind of rack do you have? I made a mistake a few years back and sold my '88 GL wagon with the Thule rack and basket on it. Now I'm looking for a rack for my '87 but I don't want to spend a fortune on it.

 

Tracy

 

oh and I got the filter from http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8006953413&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

......and I think my spare tire looks nice on my roof rack...and can get to things more easily in my engine bay without that full size spare under there.

[calebz]

A stock 2.2 will pull close to 140 hp (whoopdee freakin' doo, my Dodge Decrepid runs circles around it... whoopdee freakin' doo about that too for that matter, it's a piece of junk I got for cheap and it manages to haul my family on our family trips which is all I bought it for.)

 

If you've built up an EA to pull over 140 HP, I'm duly impressed! I'm also left saying... "why?"... but, as they say on backpacking discussion groups I frequent, "HYOH" (hike your own hike).

 

I tend to be overly practical sometimes. It's just part of my nature. It's cool that you've managed to squeeze relatively high #'s out of an EA if that's your thing. As for myself, I didn't go back to a GL series Subaru because they have potential after much effort and $ to be fast. I like them for their utilitarian nature (like my slow, heavy, uncomfortable Landcruiser).

 

If I wanted to go fast, I can think of better candidates for a build-up.

 

Again, HYOH and I'm not dissing your Subaru Caleb.

 

Cheers, Tracy

 

The GL-10 isn't my daily driver.. Its a toy, so aside from being used to occasionally haul stuff, or when the weather is bad, practicallity isn't really an issue.

 

As to the question 'why?'

 

1 - Because I can

2 - Because my last project was a lot of $$

3 - Because this project has not been a lot of $$

 

Its true, I have put a bit of time into this thing.. But you would probably crap yourself to find how little it has actually cost.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/data/500/82Picture_116.jpg[/url]

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/data/500/82ConReal_10-05-05_004.jpg

 

Find me something else that has equal potential, features, parts availability and can be built on a comparable budget.. Chances are I have already done it

[BoostedBalls]

Sorry man, the cone filter setup is probably reducing power as well as allowing your engine to breathe in unfiltered air through the bottom of the stock metal filter housing. The stock metal filter housing is also acting as an oven to preheat the intake air from the convection of the engine heat.

 

If it were mine, I would put the cone filter inside of the passenger fender and run the plumbing right to the top of the carb. This will keep the cool air flowing in and not allowing it to sit and heat up. Then I would take that hood scoop (if you really have to have one) and mount it BACKWARDS. This would help to vent the hot air from under the hood out. Some cars come like that. Remember, your intake manifold is sitting there baking; dropping the overall engine compartment air temp and sucking in cold air will show an increase in power.

[fj401968]

The GL-10 isn't my daily driver.. Its a toy,<snip>....

As to the question 'why?'

 

1 - Because I can

<snip>....

 

....and that's as good a reason as any. A man's got to have a hobby. Lots of people wonder why I like to backpack (I live near Grand Teton National Park). To some it just seems like voluntary homelessness even if it's only for a relatively short time).

 

Like I said before, HYOY (hike your own hike).

 

Tracy

[4WDFrenzy]

Of course there are other variables that are of considerable interest like:

 

* Which side of the filter is this air introduced on? I believe the return for the PCV system is indeed on the venturi side, however the supply side of the PCV system is coming into the airbox on the outside of the filter which is fine. Of course if the rubber gaskets that the filter gets squished between are shot or missing it's all a moot point anyway.

 

* Also even if PCV vapors were being introduced to the intake on the venturi side of the filter, we're talking about crankcase vapors, not sandy, dirty, air from the environment.

 

Tracy

 

Boy you are a real piece of work. You should think about what is coming out of your head before you allow it to trickle down through your hands to the computer. Your lack of understanding is showing.

 

Anyway, if you had read my whole post rather than just the first section, you will notice that I also said to DISCONNECT THE STOVE PIPE. If he were to build a complete intake all the way to the carb(out of piping and delete the stock filterbox), then he would have no use for the stove pipe at all now would he?

 

And YES, I was talking about crankcase vapors and not sand or dirt. Who the H*** in their right mind would introduce sand and grit into the engine?

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

Patrick said: "I hate to be a downer, but all intakes introduce unfiltered air somewhere. Just check under the hood of any car."

 

Explain.

 

Tracy

 

 

Boy you are a real piece of work. You should think about what is coming out of your head before you allow it to trickle down through your hands to the computer. Your lack of understanding is showing.

.....<snip>.....

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

Patrick said: "I hate to be a downer, but all intakes introduce unfiltered air somewhere. Just check under the hood of any car."

 

Explain.

 

Tracy

 

HELLO?!!! Crankcase vapors ARE/contain unfiltered air. It doesn't matter if they(Crankcase Vapors) are introduced in the intake pipe, venturi, intake runners, whatever, you take your pick. It is still unfiltered air any which way you look at it. As I said before, LOOK UNDER THE HOOD OF ANY CAR!!!!! And if you are incapable of understanding that, then don't argue about it. You're making about as much sense as trying to ride a horse with no legs.

 

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

A stock 2.2 will pull close to 140 hp (whoopdee freakin' doo, my Dodge Decrepid runs circles around it... whoopdee freakin' doo about that too for that matter, it's a piece of junk I got for cheap and it manages to haul my family on our family trips which is all I bought it for.)

 

Cheers, Tracy

 

Piece of Junk? I haven't seen a Subaru yet that was a "Piece of Junk." If that is the way you feel, you can sell it to someone who will appreciate it more. Even the most run down Subies are just works in progress. You have some nerve.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

Correct me if I'm wrong since I'm really stupid. A crankcase has a positive pressure due to the natural blow-by of an internal combustion engine. The blow-by comes from the combustion chamber. The O2 for the reaction ultimately originates in the dusty environment before it passes through the air filter, down the carb venturi and through the intake manifold. If the air filter is properly installed and the manifold doesn't have any leaks, how does unfiltered air enter the crankcase which if you'll remember, has a positive pressure?

 

Respectfully,

 

Tracy

 

HELLO?!!! Crankcase vapors ARE/contain unfiltered air. It doesn't matter if they(Crankcase Vapors) are introduced in the intake pipe, venturi, intake runners, whatever, you take your pick. It is still unfiltered air any which way you look at it. As I said before, LOOK UNDER THE HOOD OF ANY CAR!!!!! And if you are incapable of understanding that, then don't argue about it. You're making about as much sense as trying to ride a horse with no legs.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

Yeah, 'piece of junk' is a bit harsh. Although it is a fact, 1990 was a bad year for Legacy's with an auto trans. The folks at FHI under-engineered the transmission for the engine they mated it to. Auto trans problems on '90 Legacys are abundant. Also the air suspension was very problematic and EXPENSIVE to repair. The moon roof leaked, the ABS was junk, The braking system was way under-engineered. A trip down Teton pass towing my tiny tent trailer was always a treat. Also the AWD system was problematic and sloppy (on the Auto trans models).

 

With 192,000 miles The headgasket finally blew so I'm junking the car because the transmission has 70,000 miles on a $1500 rebuild and it is getting clunky again. I don't trust it for the long haul. The car is not worth dumping any more money into because of the transmission. Also, I've beat up the body a bit and the car just isn't worth it to me with various other issues to attack a transmission transplant from a 5-speed.

 

So, I cut bait and went back to a GL.

 

All that said, I actually quite liked the car and I'd purchase another Legacy so long as it wasn't a '90 with an auto trans or adjustable air suspension.

 

Tracy

 

Piece of Junk? I haven't seen a Subaru yet that was a "Piece of Junk." If that is the way you feel, you can sell it to someone who will appreciate it more. Even the most run down Subies are just works in progress. You have some nerve.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

This thread has morphed a bit. If we want to continue this fine discussion we should probably either start a new thread or take it off-list.

 

Or maybe we should just give it a rest until you aren't feeling so 'frenzied'. Sounds like you're a bit stressed about the GL-10.

 

Hope it turns out okay.

 

Tracy

 

HELLO?!!!

..............<snip>

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

I appreciate your concern about my GL-10. It'll turn out okay in time.

 

Now, as far as the crankcase vapors go, if they are forced out through the PCV valve, and back into the manifold, doesn't that mean that they are unfiltered? All PCV systems have a side that has higher pressure than the other(inlet & exit). Air enters on one side and exits back to the engine on the other. Every PVC system that I have encountered has no filter between the PCV valve and the intake tract(which includes the intake piping, throttlebody, intake manifold, intake passages into the combustion chamber, etc). Any place that the vapors are delivered(I.E. intake pipe or intake manifold) they in effect "taint" the "clean" air that has just been drawn in from the air filter. The carbed engines pull this air through the air filter element to catch any oil particles that might have escaped the crankcase or the air pickup for the crankcase has its own breather element. Newer systems simply draw the blowby directly into the engine through either the intake pipe or tube, or through the intake maifold depending on the engine design(most times through the intake manifold). Now if you'll recall, I made no reference to the dirty air going into the crankcase(check my posts), so I have no idea where that came from.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

I understand the routing of a typical PCV system. I understand the supply side of it usually goes into the intake manifold at the base of the carb (bypassing the air filter). Often the return side is within the air box area. At any rate, I think we are simply miscommunicating as to what 'filtered' means. You'll note, there is no 'air' flowing through that system that didn't originally pass through the air filter on it's way to a combustion reaction (the source of the crankcase vapors)... however, if you remember my concern was the overall propensity for a large number of places unfiltered air could enter the combustion chambers with the design of the system using the filterless air box as a go-between for the carb opening and the plastic pipe leading to the cone filter.

 

I overcomplicated the explanation of the my concerns. I should have simply said. "at the very least, the design needs to eliminate the stock airbox".

 

Sorry to have hi-jacked this thread with the virtues of how O2 passes through a filter on its way into the engine and ends up as combustion vapors flowing through a PCV system.

 

Tracy

 

I appreciate your concern about my GL-10. It'll turn out okay in time.

 

Now, as far as the crankcase vapors go, if they are forced out through the PCV valve, and back into the manifold, doesn't that mean that they are unfiltered? All PCV systems have a side that has higher pressure than the other(inlet & exit). Air enters on one side and exits back to the engine on the other. Every PVC system that I have encountered has no filter between the PCV valve and the intake tract(which includes the intake piping, throttlebody, intake manifold, intake passages into the combustion chamber, etc). Any place that the vapors are delivered(I.E. intake pipe or intake manifold) they in effect "taint" the "clean" air that has just been drawn in from the air filter. The carbed engines pull this air through the air filter element to catch any oil particles that might have escaped the crankcase or the air pickup for the crankcase has its own breather element. Newer systems simply draw the blowby directly into the engine through either the intake pipe or tube, or through the intake maifold depending on the engine design(most times through the intake manifold). Now if you'll recall, I made no reference to the dirty air going into the crankcase(check my posts), so I have no idea where that came from.

 

Patrick

[BlindSight]

lol....seems I got started something to get everyone all stirred up and thinking hard...even though its not completely about the subject or anything. Anyways, can anyone write up a how to for removing the stock airbox and explain what to do with all of the vacuum lines and hoses and such? would like to do that some time this next week but have looked through my chiltons and its not really much help with this sort of thing.

[4WDFrenzy]

At any rate, I think we are simply miscommunicating as to what 'filtered' means.

 

Agreed.

 

Patrick

[oddcomp]

might i suggest ditching the scoop and go with a cowl induction type of setup .. you know to keep the rain out of the air filter but still produce the result you are looking for?

[BlindSight]

so noone knows what to do with all of the vacuum lines to get rid of the stock air box? was hoping to do that tomorrow but need it as a daily driver so will have to finish the task.

[Phizinza]

Sorry, I don't know about the hoses and vac lines as I'm from australia (we have less of them) and I also have a deul carb setup (so its even more different)

One question I have is. You are trying to get more power, right? How much more do you expect? I'm not sure how restrictive the stock airbox is, but one way to find out is take the airbox off and drive the car for a bit (not on dirt) then you will find out how much a better filter system will work. So you can find out if all the effort is worth it. Or if your like me and just like modding things, have fun!

Or you can fab up something like I showed you on page 2, just would need to get rid of all those pipes and stuff. I know theres a way of doing it, some one was talking about it on here, dunno who tho sorry.

[dentedfender]

Im going to run a 90 right off the carb with all my old pcv and vacume line ports jb welded to the 90 then just hook up the hoses then a cone either in the fender or right up front. Ill post pics when im done with it.

[jeffast]

nm wrong thread

[BlindSight]

k...look forward to lots of detailed pics...and I just like modding things for the fun of it right now...will eventually get serious about performance and such.