OIL and FILTERS

[fj401968]

Nearly 20 years ago while performing missionary service, I learned that often, folks don't like to discuss religion, politics or motor oil.

 

Hopefully this group is a little more open to discussing at least the taboo topic of motor oil/filters.

 

I noticed while perusing his site, Miles Fox isn't a fan of Fram filters. It got me to doing some Googling and I found this discussion:

 

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cars/msg0520131113435.html

 

Is there anyone else here that avoids Fram filters? How about the cheapie Walmart filters? Any die hard WIX/NAPA filter users?

 

What about oil? I know some of you swear by Mobil 1. What about the other end of the spectrum (Walmart house brand oil in the 5 quart jug?

 

Lately, I've been putting Walmart 15W40 with some MMO added in as I've been dealing with some occasional lifter noise caused by sludge in the HLAs. If I'm not adding MMO or Seafoam, I usually use Walmart 10W30. I used to use Castrol in all my vehicles but now they are all so old, I've gotten cheap.

 

I do have Amsoil synthetic 80w in all the boxes (transmission, transfer case, front and rear differential) of my Landcruiser. It helped fuel economy and shifting in extreme cold. I've been thinking about putting it in the trans and rear diff of my GL wagon.

 

Comments?

 

Tracy

[leadfootracin]

check this out, http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

we race a late model stock car in the northwest, year before last we had a lot of cam failures, I started checking out engine oils and filters, i didnt get to far on filters but this is one of the sites i saved, as far as oil i found that the manufactures have taken zinc out of moter oil. zinc is a extreme pressure lubricent, designed for metal to metal contact, IE breaking in a camshaft, from what I understand the epa was concerned that an engine that burns oil will screw up the cat converter with the zinc, at work i have saved the oil study and will post the link tomarow. JR

[86subaru]

fram are junk, they are made very close to where i live, mobile,1 , wix, oem, k-n ,napa gold, are all good, i use amsoil or royale purple oil, 5.75 qt,

[idosubaru]

fram sucks...or did and may still be sucking. i base this on old information and studies, but if the company couldn't do it right a few years ago, i'll stick with companies who did. i use WIX in mine and purolators on occassion. make sure to stay away from FRAM or rebranded FRAM - the ones that are FRAM but have some other company/logo on it. there are sites that dilineate that information.

 

do a search on here, oil discussion aren't that uncommon.

[nipper]

fram sucks, wix and OE are the best. There are places you DONT cut corners on a car, oil chages and filters are one of them, especially if your planning on keeping the car a good long time.

 

 

nipper

[4WDFrenzy]

I avoid FRAM filters at all cost. Ever wonder what the trade-off is for such "great filtration"? It is called stemmed oil flow. And unless you want to listen to the not-so-catchy tune of the tick off death, I'd suggest you do the same. I use WIX and Purolator. I'd get an OEM one, but I just don't feel like driving 2 1/2 hours to get one or a batch of them.

 

As for oil, Mobil 1 is decent, but if you want good oil(and your pocketbook allows) I'd suggest Royal Purple or Amsoil. These are probably the best oils that money can buy, not to mention years of research to back up any and all claims.

 

Patrick

[subiemech85]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7o9JTakricsJ:www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/+oil+filter+study&hl=en&client=opera

 

the site seems to be down, but google cache worked

 

I use only purolator filters, any of their versions are good, it all depends on where you go!

[Caboobaroo]

I put a FRAM on my RX for right now but that'll change once I get it through its initial start-up procedure. Then I'll be slappin on a K&N oil filter and I'll be golden. I also use Mobil 1 10w30.

[PeterD]

BOBISTHEOILGUY

 

I use NAPA gold filters ( wix ) and Chevron Dell400 15w-40 for the subaru.

 

although currently have a Purolator Pure ONe filter on it right now. both good filters. Even if Fram filters work and meet the required specs, i still think its a horable product, and personly won't use them.

 

 

you would be amaised at what oils are very good and in some cases dino oil working better than synthetic oil. check out the link above for way way too much info on oil/filters.

 

most people buy an oil becuase its advertiesed as the best... some of the most common or "cheap" oil can be very good.

 

:cool:

[Snowman]

Fram filters are cheap pieces of junk.

 

Purolator filters are the same as the OEM ones, just with different packaging. The best deal I've found in my area is Subaru OEM filters by the case of 12 for $60 ($5 each).

 

I use Mobil 1 only, except on cars that are already high mileage and/or leak oil, in which case I run the best dino oil I know of, which is Castrol GTX.

[subyfreak]

I use valvoline max life 10-30 with 1 quart of lucas along with a pure 1 filter.

 

change about every 4000-5000 miles with good results. The lucas seems to help with oil life and lowering engine noise. All of my cars are driven very hard and this combo is one I like. In very cold locations this mix will rob you of a couple of ponies until the oil heats up but is worth the added protection if you drive hard. This is my personal opinion on the subject.

 

Quaker State= Penziol= Castorol GTX or Valvoline= +Lucas=

(sorry about the math crap)

[PeterD]

Fram filters are cheap pieces of junk.

 

Purolator filters are the same as the OEM ones, just with different packaging. The best deal I've found in my area is Subaru OEM filters by the case of 12 for $60 ($5 each).

 

I use Mobil 1 only, except on cars that are already high mileage and/or leak oil, in which case I run the best dino oil I know of, which is Castrol GTX.

 

well Castrol is the most advertiesed of many oils out there. ive used it too, but did not like it at all.

 

also there is no need for adatives like Lucas for todays oils..and Maxlife is an exclent oil all by its self.

[leadfootracin]

this is 1 of the oil studys i saved. http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html old data but interesting.

[soobscript]

I had been using OEM then PureOne filters. Stayed away from FRAM because of that lathe study. My motor blew 150 miles after sticking the first FRAM on it (purchased at walmart). I can't prove anything though...

 

AMSOIL or Royal Purple (maybe Redline too) now that engine is resealed. Was using Castrol or Mobil because I didn't want to pay for a quart of synthetic every 400 miles (every 2-3 days).

[dklink2000]

There is all this talk about fram being junk. I was just wondering WHY they are junk?

[Scoobywagon]

I personally do not use FRAM products. Mine are Wix filters or No filters. I run Valvoline 20-50 oil. Also been known to use Castrol GTX.

 

Having said that, there is some legitimacy to the argument that these are old cars and, for the most part, filters are filters. So long as you change RELIGOUSLY at <3000 miles, you're probably ok. More expensive oils and filters merely buy you more flexibility in your oil change schedule.

 

As far as the use of FRAM products goes, the most common argument you'll get is that they use a paper filter element that can disintegrate under pressure. While this is technically true, you'll generally find that it occurs under conditions that most of our Soobie's can't create. This means oil temperatures exceeding 170 at pressures exceeding 100psi. In other words, this a problem that race engiens can have. What tends to happen is the glue breaks and the filter cartridge delaminates. When that happens, you can end up with bits of filter paper all through your engine. The argument then continues that WIX filters are inherently better than FRAM because they use a welded metal cartidge and a fiber filter media. Again this is true, but it doesn't mean that they can't or won't fail. I've seen K&N and Wix filter cases explode. BOy is THAT messy. It comes down to quality control, and WIX generally does a better job than FRAM.

[Snowman]

On additives: Lucas oil additive and other similar products do make the oil stick to parts better, but they also cause aeration of the oil, especially when it lubricates gears (like in the EA81 and earlier soobs). I saw a video of a rear end operating with Lucas additive and a clear diff cover, and it was quite impressive how foamy the oil got after just a few seconds.

[soobscript]

There is all this talk about fram being junk. I was just wondering WHY they are junk?

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html#fram

[fj401968]

So a filter design that restricts oil flow will increase the incidence of HLA tick? Interesting. I haven't heard that theory yet. I thought HLAs operated under a relatively low pressure. My oil pressure is around 45 with a FRAM.

 

It looks like there are some good votes around here for WIX filters (their fail-safe technology is certainly better).

 

I am wondering if the FRAM hate is completely justified. One of these days I need to cut a couple filters apart myself and take a look-see.

 

Tracy

 

I avoid FRAM filters at all cost. Ever wonder what the trade-off is for such "great filtration"? It is called stemmed oil flow. And unless you want to listen to the not-so-catchy tune of the tick off death, I'd suggest you do the same. I use WIX and Purolator. I'd get an OEM one, but I just don't feel like driving 2 1/2 hours to get one or a batch of them.

 

As for oil, Mobil 1 is decent, but if you want good oil(and your pocketbook allows) I'd suggest Royal Purple or Amsoil. These are probably the best oils that money can buy, not to mention years of research to back up any and all claims.

 

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

Are you just trying to be an @$$ or what? Don't go from one post to another trying to keep argument going. This is by all means NOT the place.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

That sounds reasonable.

 

Seems like some of the 'quality' built into a more expensive filter might be 'blue sky' for a commuter car that gets regular oil changes .

 

A coworker's dad sells WIX, they appear to have a better bypass system for a clogged filter. I hope I change my oil sooner before I have that problem though.

 

I'm enjoying the responses and learning which is why I come here.

 

Tracy

 

I personally do not use FRAM products. Mine are Wix filters or No filters. I run Valvoline 20-50 oil. Also been known to use Castrol GTX.

 

Having said that, there is some legitimacy to the argument that these are old cars and, for the most part, filters are filters. So long as you change RELIGOUSLY at <3000 miles, you're probably ok. More expensive oils and filters merely buy you more flexibility in your oil change schedule.

 

As far as the use of FRAM products goes, the most common argument you'll get is that they use a paper filter element that can disintegrate under pressure. While this is technically true, you'll generally find that it occurs under conditions that most of our Soobie's can't create. This means oil temperatures exceeding 170 at pressures exceeding 100psi. In other words, this a problem that race engiens can have. What tends to happen is the glue breaks and the filter cartridge delaminates. When that happens, you can end up with bits of filter paper all through your engine. The argument then continues that WIX filters are inherently better than FRAM because they use a welded metal cartidge and a fiber filter media. Again this is true, but it doesn't mean that they can't or won't fail. I've seen K&N and Wix filter cases explode. BOy is THAT messy. It comes down to quality control, and WIX generally does a better job than FRAM.

[fj401968]

According to the author's opinion the Fram Toughgard's only drawback is being capped on each end with cardboard.

 

Tracy

 

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html#fram

[fj401968]

Just trying to learn why I should stop saving money on Walmart FRAM filters and spend more money on a WIX filter. I only paid $700 for the car and it has 200,000 miles. I am planning on changing the oil regularly but is a more expensive filter just blue sky for this car? If there is a legitimate reason to switch to a more expensive filter, I'll do it. It's why I started this thread. I want to make this car last. I like the car.

 

I can see I was right though... oil can be almost as touchy to some folks as religion is.

 

Also, as to HLA noise... I get it from time to time on my Subaru. I haven't read a connection of HLA noise and a restrictive filter. If my FRAM filter IS contributing to the problem that's reason enough change.

 

Maybe you're a little stressed. No worries, it's almost the weekend!

 

Tracy

 

Are you just trying to be an @$$ or what? Don't go from one post to another trying to keep argument going. This is by all means NOT the place.

 

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

I'll put it to you this way, mine ticked a bit every now and then when I was running a FRAM oil filter. But upon someones suggestion(can't remember who), I changed the oil and put in a WIX oil filter. After that the ticking went away and the car ran just fine. So I just put two and two together and figured that if FRAM oil filters filter so well(by their own admission), then they must surely be causing a restriction in the oiling system. Their air filters are the same way. It is a common trade off with filtration quality and air or oil flow. The smaller particles the filter traps, the more restrictive it will become after it begins to trap particles. So that is how I came to that conclusion.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

While I do appreciate you sharing anecdotal evidence, remember, causation doesn't necessarily equal correlation. It is possible, the ticking went away because the sludge just worked its way through after the oil change and the filter was unrelated.

 

The thing that perplexes me is that I thought HLAs operated under relatively low oil pressure conditions. I need to get my hands on some good engine schematics and study the system better. My understanding of the HLA system is admittedly fairly rudimentary.

 

Tracy

 

I'll put it to you this way, mine ticked a bit every now and then when I was running a FRAM oil filter. But upon someones suggestion(can't remember who), I changed the oil and put in a WIX oil filter. After that the ticking went away and the car ran just fine. So I just put two and two together and figured that if FRAM oil filters filter so well(by their own admission), then they must surely be causing a restriction in the oiling system. Their air filters are the same way. It is a common trade off with filtration quality and air or oil flow. The smaller particles the filter traps, the more restrictive it will become after it begins to trap particles. So that is how I came to that conclusion.

 

Patrick