OIL and FILTERS

[4WDFrenzy]

The info I provided wasn't meant to be an anecdote or be funny in any way, form, or fashion. This is by personal experience. I suppose that I forgot to mention that a month prior I did something(knowingly) that you are really not suppose to do to a turbo car. I ran engine flush through the system just to make sure that there was no sludge buildup. It indeed flushed any sludge that was in the system out as the oil(which at the time was about two weeks old and still looked new[i.E. hadn't turned brown]) came out a dark brown after I was done. It had been ticking before hand and the oil change, didn't go away. I then was here on the USMB and someone was saying something about FRAM oil filters, which I had coincidentally just installed one on my GL-10. The person strongly advised against FRAM, so I immediately changed the oil and filter upon coming across this info. I installed a WIX oil filter and put in new oil, and the ticking went away.

Now to your second statement. Yes, HLAs operate under low pressure conditions, but if they aren't getting enough oil to keep them lubed, then wouldn't the following result be valve lifter tick? Low pressure is only a part of the reason that HLAs tick. If you have low oil pressure and low oil flow on top of it, then poor lubrication is the result. The GL-10 was the third car that I have owned that has produced the lifter ticking noise(I previously owned a 96 Dodge Neon and a 2000 Dodge Stratus). The Stratus was the only other one of the 3 that I changed the filter to a WIX and the ticking went away. I never paid too much attention to the fact that the sound went away after I changed the filter until my wife said something about it, and even then, it still didn't click. But after experiencing this, it kind of made me believe that the filter was the problem. That is why I will never use a FRAM again. So don't take offense to my reasons unless you work for FRAM or something:) .

 

Patrick

[dragonwingsubaru]

last filter change i did on the sooby i just used the cheapy autozone one. and my sooby and my breeze pisses through oil to the point that i dont even bother to change the oil anymore since ive already added enough for 2 oil changes lol, i usually run 10w50 or 20-50 oil of the dollar store type in the soob and my breeze, and about every 4 quarts i put in some type of oil addative

[stephenw22]

I'm of the good filter / cheap oil school of thought. All of the oils sold need to meet the current API standards (SJ or S-whatever), and that's good enough for me. Since the oil is okay to start with, the filter is what keeps it good. A better filter will filter more and bypass less, and also has a better anti-drainback valve.

 

My cars tend to leak/burn enough oil that I add a little every 500-600 miles. An extra $4-5 worth of oil over 3000 miles isn't much of an operating cost.

[fj401968]

First off: Anecdote: A short narrative story relating a personal experience (it doesn't have to be funny to be an anecdote).

 

Second: Correlation ≠ causation (where ≠ means doesn't necessarly equal) .

 

If you ONLY changed the filter and left the oil in there and the tick went away immediately, then that would certainly suggest a strong correlation to the FRAM filter, however, you didn't folllow protocol for positvely identifying the source of a problem because you tampered with more than one variable in the equation.

 

Now, here's my little anecdote: When I bought my '87 GL wagon, no ticking (FRAM filter installed by previous owner). I changed the oil and the ticking started. I used 10W 30 and a FRAM. I added Seafoam drove it, flushed engine, changed oil and used 15W 40 and a FRAM... ticking continued. Added some MMO, drove it for a couple hundred miles. Ticking went away. I've since changed the oil again, ticking came back briefly then went away.

 

Likely reason in my instance: The oil changes and flush moved some sludge around and briefly plugged a HLA. Driving with Seafoam/MMO and simply putting miles on the vehicle, worked it through.

 

Currently: 10W 30 (Walmart brand), FRAM. No tick whatsoever upon start-up or during the day. I'm driving a minimum of 70 miles a day.

 

I'm not defending FRAM filters. I'm simply contending that it is highly possible the TOD you experienced was solved for the same reasons mine was. I'm also not stating that TOD is always fixed so easily. Obviously, causes vary.

 

Finally, I do believe FRAM oil filter filtering capacity, oil flow and durability are probably adequate for a GL wagon used under normal circumstances. I am aware there are better filters. The benefits are possibly 'blue sky' in a typical, older Subaru.

 

 

Tracy

The info I provided wasn't meant to be an anecdote or be funny in any way, form, or fashion. This is by personal experience.

Patrick

[nipper]

Not to add fule to the fire .. and i dont know if thais has been posted yet ..if it has i do apologize

 

 

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

 

 

nipper

[fj401968]

Yeah, that's a great site. This is what he had to say about FRAM Tough Guard filters:

 

<quote>

 

Fram Tough Guard TG8A

 

This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.

 

 

<end quote>

 

 

Tracy

 

 

 

 

Not to add fule to the fire .. and i dont know if thais has been posted yet ..if it has i do apologize

 

 

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

 

 

nipper

[MilesFox]

i prefer the napa gold or silver oil filter 21361 and 1361.

they are the same as the WIX filter and share the same part number 51361

 

i believe an oil filter for a 5.0 liter ford will fit the same for a bigger filter. i have on on the toyota camper which would also fit the subaru

 

as far as oil i get it all day from u-haul, but if i had to buy it i would get the napa brand as its the same as valvoline, i have used the synthetic and synth blend, as well as regular. good price with napa i think

 

i generally get all my parts from napa when it comes to gaskets and seals and fliuds or what not, and auto zone or adv auto for things that arent mechanical related

[archemitis]

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29209&highlight=dont+run+frams

 

yar, fram sucks, first hand experience, and about 5 pages to read through there... fram is for suckers.

 

and i swear my ea82 started ticking when i bought a 5 dollar gall on of oil from walmart "supertech" oof

[fj401968]

This is a great thread on lifter tick.

 

I think it is worth a bump for anyone whose Subie sounds like it is busy 'sewing a quilt' under the hood.

 

http://subaru.sonik.us/ezboard/topics/18582.html

 

Based on the findings in the above thread, I think my ticking was from the 'laxative effect' of flushing the engine.

 

Tracy

 

I'll put it to you this way, mine ticked a bit every now and then when I was running a FRAM oil filter.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

Here's another interesting link on oil.

 

http://www.boss302.com/oil.htm

 

Tracy

 

BOBISTHEOILGUY

 

I use NAPA gold filters ( wix ) and Chevron Dell400 15w-40 for the subaru.

 

although currently have a Purolator Pure ONe filter on it right now. both good filters. Even if Fram filters work and meet the required specs, i still think its a horable product, and personly won't use them.

 

 

you would be amaised at what oils are very good and in some cases dino oil working better than synthetic oil. check out the link above for way way too much info on oil/filters.

 

most people buy an oil becuase its advertiesed as the best... some of the most common or "cheap" oil can be very good.

 

:cool:

[4WDFrenzy]

This is a great thread on lifter tick.

 

I think it is worth a bump for anyone whose Subie sounds like it is busy 'sewing a quilt' under the hood.

 

http://subaru.sonik.us/ezboard/topics/18582.html

 

Based on the findings in the above thread, I think my ticking was from the 'laxative effect' of flushing the engine.

 

Tracy

I took the liberty of taking the exerpt from the section where you got the info to form your opinion.

 

"BTW - WAW gave some good advice. However, I will say that my lifter clatter was intermittent, and two new oil pumps with new gaskets did not have any noticeable affect on the problem; but over a period of time, the MMO treatment (1/8 to 1/4 qt. with each oil change; change both oil and filter faithfully every 3000 miles) worked. I will also add that I am convinced that my problem was caused by my suddenly changing over to synthetic oil at high mileage due to synthetic's inherent very high detergent property - what I call its "laxative affect" - rapidly releasing accumulated crankcase deposits into the lube system (and lifters)."

 

 

It is possible that the flush caused your engine to tick. When I did it to mine, it was just fine afterwards aside from the periodic ticking, which was pre-existent. But as I stated before, upon my oil and filter change, the ticking went away. What I stated was simply a theory that I had formulated from my experience. It isn't set in stone or anything so please don't get your feathers ruffled over it. I haven't really done too much investigation into it as the problem subsided, and as I said, I didn't notice until my wife said something about it. So, in saying that, if you believe my theory to be "Fool's Gold," then you need not trouble yourself bothering with it. Besides, it is just my opinion after all. Nothing more.

 

Patrick

 

[4WDFrenzy]

First off: Anecdote: A short narrative story relating a personal experience (it doesn't have to be funny to be an anecdote).

 

Second: Correlation ≠ causation (where ≠ means doesn't necessarly equal) .

 

If you ONLY changed the filter and left the oil in there and the tick went away immediately, then that would certainly suggest a strong correlation to the FRAM filter, however, you didn't folllow protocol for positvely identifying the source of a problem because you tampered with more than one variable in the equation.

 

Now, here's my little anecdote: When I bought my '87 GL wagon, no ticking (FRAM filter installed by previous owner). I changed the oil and the ticking started. I used 10W 30 and a FRAM. I added Seafoam drove it, flushed engine, changed oil and used 15W 40 and a FRAM... ticking continued. Added some MMO, drove it for a couple hundred miles. Ticking went away. I've since changed the oil again, ticking came back briefly then went away.

 

Likely reason in my instance: The oil changes and flush moved some sludge around and briefly plugged a HLA. Driving with Seafoam/MMO and simply putting miles on the vehicle, worked it through.

 

Currently: 10W 30 (Walmart brand), FRAM. No tick whatsoever upon start-up or during the day. I'm driving a minimum of 70 miles a day.

 

I'm not defending FRAM filters. I'm simply contending that it is highly possible the TOD you experienced was solved for the same reasons mine was. I'm also not stating that TOD is always fixed so easily. Obviously, causes vary.

 

Finally, I do believe FRAM oil filter filtering capacity, oil flow and durability are probably adequate for a GL wagon used under normal circumstances. I am aware there are better filters. The benefits are possibly 'blue sky' in a typical, older Subaru.

 

 

Tracy

 

Didn't follow protocol?!!! Well, maybe I'm just protective of my car, because if the car was driven any amount of time or any distance with the oil that was in it, I sure as heck wouldn't reuse it. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing that there was fresh oil in it rather than oil that had already been run before. Besides, I probably don't drive like you nor you like me. My GL-10 was a bit abused before I became the owner, so I take as many precautions as possible. I demand alot from my vehicles and all the precautions I take is to make sure they continue to run. Changing the engine oil every time the filter is changed or off the car for that matter, just happens to be one of them.

 

Patrick

[fj401968]

That's fine, however when you are trying to get to the bottom of something or making statements of cause and effect, it is helpful to only change one variable at a time otherwise the causative source will be inconclusive. I would have changed the filter AND oil at the same time as well. I'm simply stating that in so doing, your theory about FRAM flow rate as THE causative source of your noisy HLAs is weakened.

 

And yes, I'm sure we do drive our Subarus differently. I use mine mostly as a commuter car and an occasional camping car (which includes towing a small, lightweight, pop-up tent camper). I also plan on driving this Subaru to the ski resort near my home as I have past Subarus I've owned. Idaho winters can get pretty cold but that's the extent of it. Subarus are cute little cars and they do really well in the deep snow we often get here. I just love them which is why my current Subaru is the fourth I've owned. However, I have a Toyota Landcruiser that I use for any serious off-road or extreme use.

 

And don't worry Patrick, my feathers certainly haven't gotten ruffled. Nothing that goes on in an Internet list is capable of that. I come here to share and partake of information related to my Subaru. Much of what is posted here is very interesting and helpful. This forum is an amazing resource. I wish I could find something similar for some of my other vehicles or my old boat but I am not tied emotionally to the comings and goings of this list.

 

Tracy

 

Didn't follow protocol?!!! Well, maybe I'm just protective of my car, because if the car was driven any amount of time or any distance with the oil that was in it, I sure as heck wouldn't reuse it. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing that there was fresh oil in it rather than oil that had already been run before. Besides, I probably don't drive like you nor you like me. My GL-10 was a bit abused before I became the owner, so I take as many precautions as possible. I demand alot from my vehicles and all the precautions I take is to make sure they continue to run. Changing the engine oil every time the filter is changed or off the car for that matter, just happens to be one of them.

 

Patrick