91 loyal no starting issue please help

[newsubee]

I recently bought a 91 turbo loyale to save some gas $. It drove fine for a couple of weeks around the house( never failed to start or run) while I was doing some repairs to the rear quarters. I took it to be inspected, about a 20 mile drive, and the inspection station reported that it gave them some trouble keeping it running. From there I drove it over to the dealership to check out the check engine light codes. When I arrived there it refused to restart . They reported that the knock sensor was faulty. I paid for the new knock sensor went in to pick it up and it would not run. Then they reported that they want to replace the MAF sensor (a 3-6 hundered $ part). I'm getting the impression they're just following the codes and are not really putting any effort into systemic diagnosis. I pulled the car home and need to get it figured out. car still won't start. acts like it is out of gas. but seems to be pumping fuel, has plenty of spark. I pulled the current MAF sensor out looks great? I don't mind spending for a used or aftermarket MAF if I really need it, but I'm just not sure that's the problem anyway. any ideas out there from you ole subee veterans about how to proceed next? thanks

[zyewdall]

Hmmmmmmm. Will it fire if you spray ether into the throttle body? If so, it could narrow it down to just the fuel system, and rule out the ignition system.

 

What were the exact codes thrown? Not to chase codes, but it might help us think of something else that would also throw the same code.

 

Had you done anything that might have knocked any wiring harness connectors loose?

[newsubee]

Thanks for your ideas. I will try some ether to see check elect fire timing but plug wires are throwing strong spark now. I will double check all wiring harness connectors today.... I have not personally retrieved any trouble codes yet mostly because I'm not completely sure how to go about it. have been reading others posts on trouble codes and I'm starting to get a mental picture. first there are some connectors under the dash that need to be connected? then the key can be cycled to start code reporting? Somewhere there is an led that will flash out the codes? Is it on the ECM? I do not have a good listing of what the codes mean yet? So you can see that while I'm getting ready to get the codes for myself I'm not quite there yet....Any pointers will be very much appreciated.Thanks again

[idosubaru]

swap in a good MAF sensor. sensors can typically be found for 5-50 bucks, so don't pay dealer prices unless you have too.

 

in my experience the wiring/harnesses fail as much (or more often) than the sensors, so look for bad harnesses or wires.

 

you'll have to systematically trouble shoot each code until you get it sorted out. if you could get them all it would be best to see if they are related in any way...a harness, a fuse, a particular circuit, starting circuit, ignition circuit....etc.

 

Spark - you checked this. at each cylinder?

 

Fuel - are your injectors opening, i'm trying to figure out how to verify this right now.

 

Compression - do you have good compression?

[Cougar]

Definatly try the starting fluid trick (one of my favorites). If the fluid makes it run then check to see if the fuel pump is working. You should be able to hear the pump run by turning the key to the RUN positon and listen for a brief low humming sound. If you don't hear it on the first try then crank the engine briefly and try it again.

 

It sounds to me the inspection station screwed up your car but we will help you get it running again .

[newsubee]

Thank to all for your input problem still hanging on tight here's an update on what I've done thus far.

 

1. I accuired salvage MAF $69 on ebay reported good by seller. installed the new/used sensor.... RESULTS..... no change, car still will not start... could be that the used MAf is faulty in same way as existing one but getting unlikely

 

2. sprayed ether into the hose between the maf and turbo intake. RESULTS no fire, no coughs,no sputters. engine did not act any differently drawing ether throuh intake.

 

I will check fuel pressure with an inline guage this week but if there's no turnover with the ether it's probably is getting fuel too?

 

The engine seems to have normal compression I mean it is cranking very normally it does not turn over easier or faster than it should. I will check spark at each plug? next but i think there was lots

of spark energy.

 

So what holding her down?????

 

I did a sweep in the fuse panel it checks out...any particular point where I should check the engine harness all the connectors seem in place and properly clipped. if there is a particular point to check tell me and i'll get on it

[Cougar]

If there is spark to the plugs then I would check compression next. One of the timing belts may have broken.

[MilesFox]

i would agree withthe timingbelt. tale off the disty cap and crank the motor. if the rotor is not spinning then you have a broken timing belt

[LuckyPistol]

Any News?

[newsubee]

UPDATE ON THE 91 no starting problem. Still wont start or run.

Sorry for the slow progress but I was out of town for the holiday and have had to catch up on paying work since my return I have continued to check out some of the basics.

 

Ruled out timing belts and major igniton problem. Distributor is turning and spark comes close to TDC piston position for each cylinder. if the timing 's off it's something slight like a sensor out of whack. but it appears to be about right in general......

 

Ruled out fuel supply problems... put in an in-line fuel pressure gauge it says the pump and filter check out fine...... I took the induction hoses off stuck a finger in and checked the turbo it spins freely...

 

I tried to extract trouble codes not sure if I'm doing it right but the led on the ecm flashes continuous sets of three could be 3 or 33 the key I have says 33 is the vehicle speed sensor...I don't know how that would generate a no start condition?

I have found a step by step for checking the ohms resistance of the air flow meter and its wiring leads I'll check that next.....

 

This problem seemed to develop or get worse over the two day period it was out for inspection and diagonsis? it ran part time for the inspection mechanic. The dealership was surprised when it woulden't limp home on its own power because it was running part time for them as well what about a clogged up exhaust whould that give you a no start situation like this. IS it a frequent issue for these cars mine only has 76,000 its just a puppy. I really want to get this car back on the highway for a year.

[Cougar]

From your post it appears that spark is ok at each cylinder. To see if the fuel delivery is a problem spray some starting fliud into the intake and if the engine runs then you need to see what is going on with the injector if this is SPFI. If that doesn't make the engine fire up then check the compression. The passenger side belt may have broke.