dissapointed with the obw mud performance

[97OBW]

was offroading in the mud went through a couple of trenches, and then went thru a trench that was really muddy. cars front tires were in deep mud but the rears were on grass.. put it in R and the front wheels only spun..... why didnt my rear wheels spin and get me out its a 97'obw auto. oya and my ABS light came on too.. but then later turned off when i was towed out my a ram. i also need new foglights if anyone knows where to get em...

[subie94]

probably open diffs,they don't transfer power to the wheels that don't slip to well.

 

 

as far as abs light coming on.system prob though there was a prob with the brakes cause two wheels were spinning and bk two weren't.i've had it happen when i got high centered last winter.

[Andyjo]

should have kept going

i think you have a viscous center diff... so the back wheels should have been spinning at least a little, they most likely didn't have very good traction either.. or not enough torque was getting to them to do anything. I've been stuck plenty of times, and it's usually just one front and one rear spinning... not both front.. odd

 

as for the ABS light, your abs system doesn't get happy when you clog up your brakes with mud/rocks/anything, so if you try to press the brake when there's crap between the pad & rotor it doesn't get happy. It's happened to me a few times, once it gets cleared out it turns off, it also might have to do with the non-spinning of the rear wheels.. but i dunno...

[nipper]

Actually a light application of the brake pedal will shift torque to all four wheels (in theory). It adds drag to the free spinning wheels with no traction and transfers it to the other wheels. A more agresive mud tire would help too.

 

ABS sensors will trigger the light if cacked in mud, snow or drenched with water and uusally clear themselves up.

There is a set of factory fog loghts on ebay.

 

nipper

[jamal]

Actually a light application of the brake pedal will shift torque to all four wheels (in theory). It adds drag to the free spinning wheels with no traction and transfers it to the other wheels. A more agresive mud tire would help too.

 

nipper

 

Kind of like what VDC does, but not all fancy and computer-controlled.

 

If you have an auto, it's actually not a viscous coupling, but a set of clutch packs. Either way, it's still not the purely mechanical connection of a 4x4, and allows slip between the front and rear (so you can drive it on pavement). So, if one set of wheels is really bogged down, the car might not be able to transfer enough power to pull the car out.

 

Oh, and the reason one front and rear wheel will spin is that the differentials are open. Contrary to what subaru marketing might say, they do not transfer power from the "wheels that slip to the wheels that grip."

[Dr.Outback]

 

Contrary to what subaru marketing might say, they do not transfer power from the "wheels that slip to the wheels that grip."

 

Subaru's AWD on non VDC models only transfers power from the front axle to the rear axle. But not to only one wheel.

 

So the system does transfer power from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip. But not from the wheel that slips to the wheel that grips.

[97OBW]

so what would happen on level ground on snow or mud... will i get stuck with my front tires spinning again?, i atleast thought it would shift 50/50 and all 4 wheels would start spinning, but the way i was stuck it felt like i was in a FWD car,( though it was a steep enough mud trench to bust out my fogs) i thought it would have done better( i have a stock auto)

[subie94]

in my 92 legacy 5spd i had an the 94 legacy 5spd i now have.if in the snow i hit the gas,the back wheels will spin then like 30secs later the front start to pull.

 

it's so fun to be able to create a nice rooster-tail of snow an mud (be it for a min or two)

 

so it's a delay power transfer.i think that in order to get a 50/50 split,you'd need a locking center diff ( i think )

[cookie]

or modify your car in a big way. The Outback is just a passenger car and not really that off road capable. When I was your age I was kicking the crap out of old Jeeps learning what you are now.

Properly driven the Subau can surprise a lot of folks with what it can do. I am not sure an automatic is best for what you are trying to do, although MT Smith and some of the other folks say that they can out perform a 5 speed in snow conditions.

I recently took my Forester through so much mud I still have it in my engine compartment and it did fine. It is a five speed so there is no lockup period for the rear wheels, and I knew that since I have no low range I had better keep my speed up or I was screwed.

The Subarus they sell in other countries are more off road capable.

[subie94]

The Subarus they sell in other countries are more off road capable.

and you know why their subarus are more off-road capable?

 

it's because their newer subarus come with dual range as a option

[nipper]

so what would happen on level ground on snow or mud... will i get stuck with my front tires spinning again?, i atleast thought it would shift 50/50 and all 4 wheels would start spinning, but the way i was stuck it felt like i was in a FWD car,( though it was a steep enough mud trench to bust out my fogs) i thought it would have done better( i have a stock auto)

 

4wd or AWD is at best a misnomer, and always has been. Unless you have lockers or LSD you have the wheel with least resistance getting all the torque, hence the brake pedal trick.

And no you wont get stuck, of you do its probably more a thing of driving method or too deep snow then anything else. It takes a moment for the rear wheel to engage, and spinning is NOT the way you determine that its working. In fact once you have tires spinning you have lost traction and you are stuck. The front tires may sppin in snow, but once the rear wheels hookup, if you have backed off the gas, the car should go.

4wheeling in any vehical is minimal throttle to get the car moving, not to spin the tires.

Also you cant expect a street tire to do well in mud. You need a more aggresive tire, or to drop the airpressure to get a better bite in the mud.

 

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

can't imagine all 4 wheels should be spinning, you should have at least one open diff on the front or rear, if not both.

 

agreed, stock tires will SUCK in the mud. and they will suck even worse if they are old. at an angle you're hosed, all your weight is up front so if the angle and mud is bad enough even a 4WD truck won't go anywhere because while the rear might be spinning it doesn't have any weight in the rear to get traction.

 

on my older automatic XT6 i have installed a switch to manually control lockup of the 4WD transfer clutches. i flip the switch and it locks the transfer clutch, essentially like locking the differential in a 4wd vehicle. it binds, hops and bucks like a 4WD truck when i lock it. if that's an option on yours, definitely do it...it's called Duty Solenoid C, that's the solenoid that controls the transfer clutches in the older 4EAT automatics. this is also nice because i can tell it when to lock up...as opposed to letting the computer detect slip...in which case it starts to create ruts, before locking it. i also have an LSD rear end....just these two additions alone help a fair amount with snow/mud. LSD isn't perfect, but better than an open rear end.

[fnlyfnd]

I got some through some pretty thick, decently deep mud trenches in my roo with crappy a/s tires. Just threw it in 1st and floored it. I was scared that I was going to be stuck in the middle of the woods, and have to wait for a friends, friend with a jeep to come and tow me out, but the roo held its own.

 

So today i finally get to a parking lot with some snow. It was next to a strip mall so I was in plain sight of a lot of people. I only stuck around for 30 seconds or so, a couple different times. I came to realize my tires aren't very good in the snow as I have a hard time steering. I did realize that I can do donuts, I just have to give it hard gas (1st gear helps a lot, but 2nd will provide the same results). My question is, since I have a manual I have 50/50, why can I do donuts? Is it just because the back is so light and momentum is in my favor? why are both back tires spinning, since its not an lsd?

[nipper]

then can equally have poor traction and be spinning becuase of it

 

 

there will be no satisfying you will there

 

nipper

[fnlyfnd]

lol, I am satisfied, I am verry happy that I can doonuts - no more ebrake slides for this guy. as for the steering, I had more practice tonight in the dark at another lot, and am now satisfied, since i know how to manuever the awd better. I know i am being paranoid (not this post, but others). I didn't want to take out a loan since I will be going back to school. Since I did take out a loan I am just being overly paranoid. Don't get me wrong I love this car and tell everyone about how much I love it, primarily cause they like to mock me because I am driving a wagon ( I don't take it personally, its just that i was always the one with fast sports cars). They just dont understand functionality/practicality, and how much roos rock

[NoahDL88]

took the 4EAT out to the mountains, some real gnarly 4WD only trails, there were some places where the pucker factor was 10+ but she got us through, no mud though, that would have been a different story.

 

With these, i've learned, the least amount of throttle you can give the better.

 

 

In general, as has been stated, a 2wd is a 1wd, and a 4wd is a 2wd, if you have a locker you have 3wd, and with an LSD you have 2.5wd.

[Setright]

ebrake turns?

 

If you have been doing a lot these in your AWD Sube, you may have roasted the center diff - that could be why it doesn't work too well.

[blitz]

ebrake turns?

 

If you have been doing a lot these in your AWD Sube, you may have roasted the center diff - that could be why it doesn't work too well.

Well... an occasional low-speed blip on the e-brake just to influence the rear to move in the correct direction won't hurt anything.

 

...or just a light e-brake drag applied across the rear diff (with power applied), evens-out the power flow left-to-right enough to "posi" the rear of the car and get it to step off in the direction you desire.

 

IMO, these are legit vehicle control aids on slippery winter surfaces, but like you say, definitely no typical "e-brake turns" allowed on a Sube.

[fnlyfnd]

I was saying now that I am out of the FWD ring, I dont have to do ebrake slides. I wouldn't hesitate to pull it in an emergency slide though. I have only had a awd for 3 weeks, and only had a chance to play in some snow yesterday.

[Dr.Outback]

One feature that many don't know, and should know, is that on auto trans Subies to get the best hill climbing power and traction you have to manually shift the trans into first gear. This locks the torque split 50/50 and prevents the trans from shifting through gears in response to wheel spin. If you just leave it in Drive when the wheels start spinning, the trans will shift from 1st through 4th because it simply thinks you are accelerating.

[q240z]

One feature that many don't know, and should know, is that on auto trans Subies to get the best hill climbing power and traction you have to manually shift the trans into first gear. This locks the torque split 50/50 and prevents the trans from shifting through gears in response to wheel spin. If you just leave it in Drive when the wheels start spinning, the trans will shift from 1st through 4th because it simply thinks you are accelerating.

Wierd. I wonder why Subaru wouldn't use input from the ABS sensors in their AT cars, as many other manufacturers do, to detect differential wheel speed and control shifting?

[nipper]

i did not know that.

Untill the last fe years subaru wanted to keep thier electronics simple and minimal. They still do but i think they have gotten to a good comfort levle that they now combine them. By electronics i mean the program itself, the hardware is fairly easy to make in comparison.

 

 

nipper

[schspeedster]

One feature that many don't know, and should know, is that on auto trans Subies to get the best hill climbing power and traction you have to manually shift the trans into first gear. This locks the torque split 50/50 and prevents the trans from shifting through gears in response to wheel spin. If you just leave it in Drive when the wheels start spinning, the trans will shift from 1st through 4th because it simply thinks you are accelerating.

 

When is the MANUAL button best used on the first gen Legacy? If I understand the owners manual, all the button does is allow starting in 2nd.

[Dr.Outback]

Wierd. I wonder why Subaru wouldn't use input from the ABS sensors in their AT cars, as many other manufacturers do, to detect differential wheel speed and control shifting?

 

Well, they might. I'll ask a Subie tech when I get a chance. But from my knowledge of Subaru's, if all 4 wheels are spinning at the same rate, there is really no way for the TCU to know the car is not simply accelerating forward.

 

When is the MANUAL button best used on the first gen Legacy? If I understand the owners manual, all the button does is allow starting in 2nd.

 

Yeah, all it's used for is sarting the car in 2nd when the selector lever is in 3rd, or for holding 2nd when the selectors in 2nd.

[q240z]

Without locked up diffs front & rear, it might be a challenge getting all the wheels to spin at the same in a lo/no traction situation. I think. But then, I'm new to this whole Subi thing.