02 Leg/Out brake job...need expert input

[jgang]

Hi folks, new here, need advice.

 

I've a 02 H6 Sedan with 58K miles that appears to be in need of a brake job. Brakes pulse and the vehicle wobbles slightly at speed (maybe and alignment issue?). I've read that the factory rotors are decent, but that the factory pads are basically junk. As such, I'm looking to upgrade to some quality pads that don't squeal, have good service life and aren't too dusty. This is a daily driver that comes closest to light track work on highway on-ramps...nothing more. I've read that Hawk Performance has a good pad...thoughts? Recommendations? Finally, I'm handy enough to do this myself, but are there any special tools I'll need to get the rotors off to turn them? Looks like I need to bend a tab out to remove the large center nut holding the rotor on.

 

Any/all input appreciated.

 

BTW, I did a search on the subject and couldn't find the answers I was looking for.

 

TIA,

Jason

[Setright]

Whoa there! That center nut holds the drive axle into the hub, that DOES NOT need to come off!

 

You need to remove the wheel, then remove the lower caliper sliding bolt, rotate the caliper up and hold it while you remove the pads. Then swing it back down and put the bolt in loosely. Now, at the back of the caliper mount there are two bolts that need to come out and give you clearance to lift the rotor off.

The rotor is not bolted in, the wheels hold them in place.

 

I would strongly recommend Mintex brake pads. The standard pad ("Red box") has better performance than Subaru's own pad, and won't dust more.

 

Be sure to refit the black pad shim, that's the one that stops squeal.

[mattocs]

OEM pads for my 96 Outback are really good. Long lasting, quite, and low dusting.

 

I am sure there are other good pads out there. I can go through a set of rotors and cheap pads in 10,000 miles...and the factory ones are much better than that.

[jgang]

Setright,

 

Glad I asked. When looking at the rotor, it appeared to be one piece with the axle. I figured it had to be simpler than what I thought. Never heard of "mintex" before. Are they available locally (usual suspect auto parts stores) or do they need to be special ordered via the net?

 

Thanks,

Jason

[1 Lucky Texan]

You will probably need to take the rotors to be turned/ground.

Although some folks find the info to be counter to their beliefs about warped rotors - you might find this article interesting;

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

 

Do not overlook the possibility you have 2 issues at once - bad tires or a tire with some tread seperation, and bad brakes. Though recently, new pads and rotors on a Dodge I owned cleared up a lot of wheel vibration under braking, which did not cause any noticeable pedal pulsing. In the past, I've had bad tires vibrate when brakes and alignment were OK.

 

just some thoughts

 

OBTW - do Mintex pads dust less or, have a lighter colored dust than stock? I have white wheels and an just asking.

[idosubaru]

sounds like your rotors need turning/replaced. machine ship will tell you if they are out of spec (if you feel vibrations/wobbling, they may be). or you can just buy new ones to replace. turnings prices have gone up alot around where i live, i buy rotors instead so i can do the job all at once no need to wait around or leave the car down.

 

definitley don't buy the cheapest pads...they will work *okay* on some vehicles and terrible on others, no need to take the chance. buy better grade pads. i'll leave brands for others to comment on.

 

be sure to have some grease available to grease the caliper slides, or at least inspect them to make sure they are not dry. this will cause pads to drag against the rotor and wear quicker and reduce gas mileage. just don't get grease on your pads/rotors.

 

alignment is likely not the problem. alignments are revenue generating services more than anything else, they are rarely needed. 220,000 miles and how many alignments have i gotten? none. i rotate tires frequently and when i see uneven wear i'll get an alignment, there's no need to pointlessly align tires all the time, except to pad the pockets of corp's or ease your mental anguish.

 

turning the rotors is a similar overdone item...i've put 200,000 miles on rotors, i turn them only if they're out of spec or warped (which they haven't been on my 220,000 mile daily driver, all original rotors). i replace my pads early and they don't get gouged or uneven. braking is smooth and tight.

[idosubaru]

i'm not familiar with your car, but you'll need to push the brake caliper piston in to make room for the new and thicker pads. this is accomplished with either a C-clamp or a special tool. the special tool is needed if the piston is on a spindle and needs to rotate to retract. it's like a 4 dollar tool and attaches to your ratchet, allows you to ratchet the piston back instead of just pushing it straight back with a c-clamp. if it won't budge...dont' force it with a c-clamp, probably means you need the tool. someone here will know or ask the dealer or the parts store (they might know if you're lucky, or they can pull a new caliper out of the box and have a look and tell you). and when you push the piston back in, be SURE to open the brake fluid reservoir on the master cylinder. when you push the pistons back in, they also push fluid back too and it has to go somewhere. if you don't remove the master cyilnder cap it can ruin the master cyilnder. i have a extra large eyedropper for sucking fluid out of the master cyilnder if it gets too high from pushing the pistons back in..fluid will fill the reservoir. or just soak it up with some towels/rags.

[nipper]

my two cents ...

Yes earlier pads from Subaru are great, but the 2000 and higher im hearing people being disapointed with them. Seems to me they made the cars heavier and didnt beef up the brakes.

What I would suggest is if your going to do it, do it right. Go for cross drilled brake rotors and a much better, as suggested here, aftermarket brake pad.

When you brake hard, a small layer of gas develops between the pad and the rotor, and that is where fade comes from. The cross drilled holes allow for this gas to escape, and make drastic differnce.

I dont know how thick the the newer rotors are, but i found it cheaper in the long run just to replace rotors, if they are on the thin side already out of the factory. As you turn the rotors, you make them thinner, and they are more prone to wrping from over heating. Some GM rotors are already paper thin, so most machine shops wont touch them. Ask the machine sho, as they can guide on this.

Also check the tires to make sure there is no tread seperation.

 

nipper

[jamal]

What I would suggest is if your going to do it, do it right. Go for cross drilled brake rotors and a much better, as suggested here, aftermarket brake pad.

 

nipper

 

 

Cross drilled brake rotors are crap. Don't get them. The holes are purely cosmetic, and can pose a safety risk. I don't see why anyone would want to drill holes in their brake rotors. Here's a rather long discussion about it.

 

Basically, rotors were drilled in like the 50s on race cars because pads would out-gas fairly severly, and the holes gave the gas a place to go. Now all drilling does is make pretty holes in your rotor, remove material, and create areas of stress concentration during heating cycles. The increased surface are of the rotor for dissipating heat is also negligable compared to the lost material and lost surface area on the face of the rotor.

 

Slots supposedly "scrape" the pad for better initial bite. If you were to take three identical cars with the same tires and pads, and they had drilled, slotted, and blank rotors, I promise you there would be absolutely no difference in braking performance.

 

OEM or brembo blanks or whatever would be good. I've heard that cheapo parts store rotors aren't always straight, so you could have pulsating and vibration right from the start. As much as I want to go buy $35 autozone blanks when I do my brakes, I'm probably going to go to the dealer.

 

More articles about brakes:

Brake system

rotors

stoptech technical info

 

Hmmm... I think I may have convinced myself to not even bother with the bigger brakes I have planned, even though they would look SO COOL. Although there are not many pad options for a 93 Legacy L, and a lot for a WRX.

 

Some other makers of good performance street pads are Hawk, Porterfield, Ferodo, and Carbotech. I personally am going to try out Axxis Ultimate pads, which are fairly inexpensive and supposedly pretty good.

 

However, if you've never experienced fade with stock pads, I don't see much of a reason not to get another set. The companies I mentioned tend to make more expensive and performance oriented pads, so they may dust more than stock pads and be noisy and chew up rotors and not work really great when they're cold.

[OB99W]

I don't know if I qualify as "expert" , but here's a precaution to consider...

 

The moving parts in brake hydraulic systems cause small amounts of metal to wear off and wind up in the brake fluid. Also, since non-silicone type brake fluid gradually picks up moisture, some rust is formed as well. These contaminants usually settle to the lower points in the system. Therefore, when retracting brake caliper pistons, it's usually a good idea to open the caliper bleed screw before applying pressure. This is especially true on vehicles with ABS (Anti-lock Brake System). Otherwise, the contaminants can sometimes be forced back up the brake lines into places where they can cause problems, such as the ABS hydraulic unit.

 

As soon as the retraction is completed at each wheel, close the bleed screw to prevent air from entering the system. Since it's usually recommended that brake fluid be flushed every 2-3 years on cars with ABS, once the brakes are back together that might be the time. If not doing a flush, you should just add fresh fluid to the master cylinder reservoir, keeping the level high enough to prevent air from entering there when you first depress the brake pedal after the new pads are installed. Naturally, adjust the level as needed to keep it within the proper range.

 

--OB99W

[nipper]

Cross drilled brake rotors are crap. Don't get them. The holes are purely cosmetic, and can pose a safety risk. I don't see why anyone would want to drill holes in their brake rotors. Here's a rather long discussion about it.

 

 

Cars do suffer from brake fade today, just not that many thank goodness. Drilled rotors can be done right or can be done very wrong, they must be cross drilled and then properly annealed to reduce the stresses of the drilling. Therws is alot more to it then just driling holes int disc, as alot of cheap rotors do do. SLoted rotors are good, but i dont know if they are available for the roo.

 

http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/rotors.txt

 

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=6955

 

corvete uses crossdrilled rotors

http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/index.shtml

 

http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articleviewer.asp?pg=pht20000717tp&cccid=4&scccid=5

 

 

but i will conced that slotted may be better then drilled, as it seems the only place to get good drilled discs is brambo

 

ild still put brambos on my car anyday.

A brake sysytem is a trade off many tyhintgs, like anything else in the car, and you need to look at your driving style. It should be looked at as asystem and not individual parts, and the most forgotten peice of the system is usually the flex brake lines.

 

 

nipper

[Setright]

Porsche uses cross-drilled rotors. I can't see that company being swayed by fashion and compromising brake performance. Those holes are functional.

Yet, those holes are pretty small...

 

 

(Of course the Cayenne shows even Porsche will give into fashion trends, at least on layout -if not mechanicals)

[nipper]

Yup the holse dont have to be very big, nor alot of them to be proper, hence my comment on you get what you pay for. Cgeap driled factory rotors have too many holes that are too big that are too close tto the edge of the disc.

 

 

nipper