HELP: locked up wheels and stick shft

[ty3]

Hi,

I am new to USMB. I got 98 Legacy L AWD. Parked uphill on my driveway overnight, and next morning, all wheels and shift lever are completely locked up. By the time it was towed and unloaded at the garage, it was freed as though nothing had happened. It occurred twice in past 3 weeks. Local garage is clueless, and when I called nearby Subaru dealers, they don't seem to know either. I am not optimistic that, without any symptoms to present, the car may sit at the dealer for days, or get everything in sight replaced. I thought that it might be something wrong with AWD differential. (I remembered a similar situation of my old Toyota Tercel 4WD of 4WD-2WD lever getting stuck after driving 4WD vehicle on a dry pavement for while). Could anyone give me advice?

Thanks

[75subie]

is it auto or manual?when parking on a hill, try engaging your e-brake before letting off the brake pedal, that way it will relieve on pressure thats on the tranny.

[nipper]

have your parking brake inspected to make sure it works. Porper way to park a car (which no one does including me unelss ...) on a hill.

 

Stop the car with the brake pedal (hey on im back drugs so stop giggling), apply the paking brake fully, THEN put the car in park. a manual same thing but put the car in reverse.

 

If you are on a steep enough hill, the load on the parking pawl (its just a rod in the tranny) will be so great that you cant move the selector out of park.

 

nipper

[thingol]

As a counter-point to 75subie's and Nipper's post regarding if it is an auto, if it is a manual:

 

Does it only do it on hills, with the nose of the car up? If so, your Hill Holder is probably going south. On our old 88 wagon, it siezed up on a hill once and locked up. On that car, we just disabled it (I can give you some instructions on this if you need), but you could opt to fix it.

 

If it is a manual, that would be my guess, the 5 Speed AWD system is pretty bomb-proof, and a fozen parking brake would most likely not fix its self.

[nipper]

oo yes it would be nice to know year and model

 

 

nipper

[75subie]

look at the first sentence in his post

[ty3]

Thanks for the replies.

So, you don't think it has anything to do with AWD differential (or such stuff)?

So, even with manual transmission, roll slightly with stopped engine and engaged clutch would lock up the transmission? I suppose if hill holder is engaged very tightly, this caused complete freeze. I am debating if I should take it to the dealer, or keep parking my car in neutral with parking brake and wheel chucks.

Thanks again,

[thingol]

Define "locked up transmission" for us. To answer your question directly, no, a manual is not subject to the bind being referred to by Nipper and 75subie, but if you could describe the symptoms exactly it would help. For example, when it is "locked up", can you move the stick shift between gears, (with or without the clutch in), etc? Or is it just "locked up" in that the vehicle won't move?

 

If it is simply that the vehicle won't move, the a frozen parking brake (not a bound transmission), or the previously mentioned frozen hill holder still top my list. No matter what, since it is a 5 speed (I thought you had mentioned that when I posted before, but could not find the mention......then I re-read the thread title ), I simply don't think it is the AWD system, as all it is is a viscous coupling between the front and rear, and even if it locked up, it would demonstrate substantially different symptoms (and NOT fix its self).

[ty3]

Define "locked up transmission" for us.

 

I think it was in the 2nd gear, and will not move to neutral, or any other gears, with or without clutch pedal depressed. On both times, it was below freezing previous night.

 

Car did not roll, and although it was in 2nd gear, when I release the clutch slowly, it did not move at all.

 

1st time, tow truck lifted rear wheels, put the dories on two front wheels and towed 3 miles.

 

2nd time, flat bed tow truck came, put a little plastic sheet under wheels and pulled the car up on the bed. (Wheels did not turn at all) To unload, it used pulley to slide down from the bed (I felt little nervous). After car was on the ground, I touched the shift, and now, it was free again.

 

"If it is simply that the vehicle won't move, the a frozen parking brake (not a bound transmission), or the previously mentioned frozen hill holder still top my list."

 

The shift lever on manual transmission did not move at all (I was afraid of breaking it). I also warmed the car up, pumped the brake and clutch pedals many times.

[sea#3]

Has the trany ever been apart for any reason ?

SEA#3

[thingol]

Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I am going to have to revise my suggestions, and agree that it may well be in the transmission. Neither a frozen parking brake or a stuck hill-holder would have any effect on the actual stick whatsoever.

 

For transmission problems (which, if it is one, I still don't think it has anything to do with the AWD system, as even if the coupling was messed up, it would still shift fine), I unfortunately can't give much more advice than to suggest the linkage between the shifter and the transmission be checked. I don't know exactly how, but perhaps it is loose and getting jammed and then releases. Other than that, I don't know enough about the transmission internals to be of much help.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I've heard that, on rare occasions, someone drains or puts the wrong fluid in a soob. Is it possible you had some service done before this began happening?

 

I dunno

[Gnuman]

If this is internal to the transmission it would be some component binding the shifting arms that push the particular gears in place th select the gear that you want (sorry, it is late, and I don't want to think hard enough to recall the correct name for this part) due to a slight rolling on the hill. Releasing the pressure on the clutch should correct this, however, so that does not seem very likely. I'm siding with those that are pointing to the shift linkage itself. You can also check the oil leven in your transmission to be sure it is correct. . . this does not sound at all like an AWD problem. It does sound like a binding problem with the shifting mechanism (internal or external to the tranny)

[nipper]

OK its a stick. For some reason the shift forks inside the transmission are engagin two sets of gear at the same time. This is the only way you can lock up the transmission. I woudl have somone inspect the shifter and linkage, and motor mounts. its possible that there is sometrhing wrong with all three that you are just barly grabing the two sets of gears, then the physical movement of geting the car on the tow, getting it off, is disengagin what ever two sets of gears (1-2, 3-4 or 1-2 and 2-r, not sure about 5) This is going to be a tough one to diagnose, since even the act of jacking the car up may be enough to unstick the transmission. It is poossible its a bad shift fork.

 

Have you noticed and slack in the shifter?

 

 

nipper

[Gnuman]

SHIFT FORKS! that is the term my foggy brain was not coming up with. . .

 

OK, this happens when he is in 2nd and on a hill. That would be 1-2, or 2-R as the others would not be anywhere near to engaging with the shifter in 2nd. That would cause the wheels to lock up as well, as the engine is trying to turn two sets of gears, both of which are trying to turn the wheels in different directions, or at different speeds. Hmmm. . . This only happens when you park on a steep hill in 2nd? Have you tried it in 1st? You also said that when you park it in neutral, you use chocks. Is your parking brake not strong enough to hold the car on a hill (if that is the case, get it fixed.)?

[ty3]

Transmission trouble sounds reasonable…(Clutch was replaced 5 mo. ago at 130K but transmission has been never serviced except to replace the fluid at lube places.)

Since I could not even replace spark plugs (too remote) on this car, what would you wise people suggest?

 

1. Take it to the dealer, without telling your guesses.

2. Same as 1, but tell what I think it is.

3. Take it to transmission shop.

4. Fix the parking brake, and park in neutral with wheel chocks (I’m still afraid it may roll down to relatively busy street.

 

I am reluctant to park in 1st or reverse gear, since once it is stuck, I could not do anything but to call the tow.

[OB99W]

4. Fix the parking brake, and park in neutral with wheel chocks (I’m still afraid it may roll down to relatively busy street.

If you elect #4 (and I'm not suggesting it's the best approach), or even if other work is done, by all means fix the parking brake. If you are parallel parking on a street with good (high enough) curbs, then turning the wheels in addition to setting the parking brake is usually the proper procedure. Rather than describe how that's done, since it varies with uphill and downhiil parking, as well as when there's no curb, here are a couple of links that describe the technique:

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmanual/chapter07-manual.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_1869_park-hill.html

 

I'm not trying to be a "wise guy", so sorry if you were already aware of this, or it can't be applied in your situation. Chocking the wheels probably couldn't hurt under any condition.

 

--OB99W

[nipper]

You ned to take it to a tranny shop, a dealer will want your first born male child and child to be named later. The shift linkage has a single shift rod that not only selects 1-2 but also moves it to 3-4 and 5-r. Other shifters use two rods, one for the front back motion and on to move from 1-2 to 3-4 5-r. It looks like the 1-2 3-4 5-r shift forks are internal to the transmission. The onl thing i can relate this to is olf rwd VW. They used one rod. The rod would select the forks to move, with the movement of the lever. The forks on the VW had two notches on them , where a sping loaded check ball lock the fork in place untill moved. When this fork wore out, the car would pop out of gear. My feeling is that what ever method is used to select which fork to choose is worn. Its been ages since ive worked on a manual tranny on a car, but if i recal this does not require a rebuild. The forks can (used to be) servicable. i dont know about subarus. The good news is the shifter doesnt seem to be part of the tranny. If it was, then game over.

 

nipper

 

 

PS i need a voilunteer proof reader untill i get my back surgery, damn the first draft of this looked bad.. but the pain meds are fun:drunk:

[Gnuman]

You ned to take it to a tranny shop, a dealer will want your first born male child and child to be named later. The shift linkage has a single shift rod that not only selects 1-2 but also moves it to 3-4 and 5-r. Other shifters use two rods, one for the front back motion and on to move from 1-2 to 3-4 5-r. It looks like the 1-2 3-4 5-r shift forks are internal to the transmission. The onl thing i can relate this to is olf rwd VW. They used one rod. The rod would select the forks to move, with the movement of the lever. The forks on the VW had two notches on them , where a sping loaded check ball lock the fork in place untill moved. When this fork wore out, the car would pop out of gear. My feeling is that what ever method is used to select which fork to choose is worn. Its been ages since ive worked on a manual tranny on a car, but if i recal this does not require a rebuild. The forks can (used to be) servicable. i dont know about subarus. The good news is the shifter doesnt seem to be part of the tranny. If it was, then game over.

 

nipper

 

 

PS i need a voilunteer proof reader untill i get my back surgery, damn the first draft of this looked bad.. but the pain meds are fun:drunk:

 

IIRC, they go into the casing forward of the extension housing, so this would require a teardown. At that point, you might as well do a rebuild (and I'll bet many shops will not do it without a rebuild). The dealer will not do a rebuild on your tranny. they will swap in a rebuilt and send you on your way. the dealer does not repair parts, they replace them. This gets very expensive very fast, which is part of why many people call them stealerships. . . I would start hunting a good tranny shop, if I were you. . .

 

Nipper, good luck on the surgury. I hope you feel better real soon. I would offer to proofread, but I have a different problem: I cannot spell or type. . .

[nipper]

ok i wasnt sure how the tranny case was constructed.. thank you

 

 

Surgery is jan 5th, then ill disapear from the boards for week.. thanks for your good wishes.

 

 

nipper

[georgeinmd]

fwiw -- same thing happened to my friend's '03 Forester at 8000 miles. Here's a transcription of the dealer's technician's service ticket:

 

"CUSTOMER STAETS CAR IS STUCK IN REVERSE; SPOKE TO MRS 11/19 TO LET HER KNOW THE PART CAME IN TODAY AND CAR MAY BE DONE THURSDAY; CAR WOULD NOT COME OUT OF REEVRSE - R/R UNIT; REPLACE 5TH AND REVERSE SYNCHRONISER WAS WORN AND SIEZED UP; REPLACED FORK FOR FIFTH AND REVERSE WAS WORN"

 

(I suspect it was stuck in 5th & reverse since the wheels were locked up regardless of clutch engagement/disengagement).

 

-- George

[nipper]

that will do it.

 

 

nipper

[ty3]

Thanks for helpful suggestions. I am not ready to stomach $2K for transmission yet, so I will keep parking in neutral for now. When I get it fixed, I will post the outcome. Thanks!

[WoodsWagon]

Now, I may be completely wrong, but could water in the tranny cause it to freze and lock? It only seems to happen overnight, so it takes some time for it to lock. The delay could be caused by waiting for the ice to freeze. I'd change the tranny oil and mabe put in a majic syncro silencer additive.

 

Nipper:

Those back meds must be wild. I was on percs for a week, and those are weak compared to what you must have. Good luck on the surgery!

[nipper]

Now, I may be completely wrong, but could water in the tranny cause it to freze and lock? It only seems to happen overnight, so it takes some time for it to lock. The delay could be caused by waiting for the ice to freeze. I'd change the tranny oil and mabe put in a majic syncro silencer additive.

 

Nipper:

Those back meds must be wild. I was on percs for a week, and those are weak compared to what you must have. Good luck on the surgery!

 

heheh thanks. HOw do you park the car? what gear? Do you have the winter package?

 

nipper