front end alignment - left pull

[LuckyPistol]

Well, my subie is running so gooooooooda right now. I just have one small thing that is bugging me....

 

Oh, how the always start small (holding breath)..

 

My car is pulling to the left, I have searched some archived posts, and really didn't see an answer, so please help:-\

 

My car has a pull to the left, and yes, I can change lanes by letting go of the steering wheel. (left lane). There are NO noises, so I dont think its CV joint .(I hope).

 

So I just got brand new tires, and felt, hmmmmm.....Let me get a front end alignment.

 

So they do, and when they are done the service guys walks in and says "Well, you really can't adjust a front wheel drive car , they're just no adjustments. " WTF?? Is that true??

 

And I am shouting in my head..

Then why didn't he just tell me that BEFORE they did the work??

 

But then he said "Well, we did adjust your camber, the tire was toed out a bit on that side. We have test drove your car, and now, it just DRIFTS to the left, and not a PULL.

 

Well, $45 dollars and I leave. Well, the car felt alot better, sometimes it actually went straight, but then would just start to drift to the left. Now, after about a month of driving it, the PULL is back to the left.

 

seems they adjusted some slack..

 

Now, this isn't a BIG deal, I could drive it like this if I wanted too, but it just seems I am fighting the car going to the left. I want to be able to go straight. The guy at the front end place said my tires would wear just fine.

 

Well , I really do not want to fight this steering. Does anyone know what this is exactly? It seems like my description would be easy to tell me.

thanks in advance ...

 

So the questions are :

1) What is it that needs replacing - and should I just do it to both sides. and the cost please...

 

2) Why didn't the alignment place see that my bushings or whatever the f^%k it was that was worn out? I guess my luck just suks with car shops.

[exister99]

That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. Of course you can align a FWD car. Take a peek at your tie rod ends. You will notice that they have threads and a bolt along the shaft. That's where you adjust the alignment. If the guy at the shop won't do it with his fancy laser equipment then you can do a decent job yourself. I think there is a procedure for doing it manually in the "How to Keep your Subaru Alive."

[myfinalcoffinx]

From what I've read in the books, there isn't a camber/caster adjustment on the early 80s models. I don't know about the EA82s though...

 

I got the same thing you did at the alignment shop, and I left with a bad taste in my mouth because they did the toe-in adjustment, but not the camber/caster adjustment and charged me the whole $55.

[LuckyPistol]

Well, he did provide a computer read out. I sure dont know what all those numbers mean.

 

 

And if anyone knows a link to a thread about this, I would greatly apreciate it.

 

So are you saying it's tie rod ends? Wouldn't these guys of SEEN it was tie rods and tell me?

 

thanks for any and all help:)

[exister99]

No, no. I'm saying that the tie rod ends is where the alignment is adjusted.

 

Just settle down and let's focus. I know it sucks to get ripped off by the man, but that is the whole reason you are an aspiring Soob guru to begin with right.

 

First thing I would check for is any bulges on the front tire opposite the side it pulls to. I know you said your tires are new, but if you 4 wheel like the rest of us it doesn't take long to destroy the cables inside of a passenger radial.

 

When you get pulling to one side it could be almost any component of the front steering and suspension system, so I would get her up on jack stands and inspect everything.

 

Of course it would be helpful to get an alignment done to rule that out. The guy at the shop probably just told you that because he thought you looked gullible. I would call and talk to the shop owner/manager and discuss the incident. He may be surprised that his employees are telling ppl you can't align FWD vehicles.

 

 

Well, he did provide a computer read out. I sure dont know what all those numbers mean.

 

 

And if anyone knows a link to a thread about this, I would greatly apreciate it.

 

So are you saying it's tie rod ends? Wouldn't these guys of SEEN it was tie rods and tell me?

 

thanks for any and all help:)

[Subarian]

My advice: don't get it aligned at a tire shop. I take my vehicles to a shop that does nothing but alignments. It costs 10 or 15 bucks more, but they get it right.

[LuckyPistol]

This is a 2 wheel FWD car, I wish I could 4wheel with it though, LOL..

 

I did hit a dead deer in the road (08/05), doing about 30mph, I thought my subie was going to break in half. But I hit it straight on (It was covering the whole lane)

I actually got all 4 wheels off the ground, landed......

 

And I got out to inspect damage, NONE that I saw.!! WOW.

 

My car was pulling to the left before this, and still pulled to the left after.!!

 

But thank god it didn't suffer any damage. !! (I shoulda included this in my '05 horror story, LMAO)!!!!

 

I don't think I want to call that shop and argue over what he said she said. The guy who was spewing the BS was pretty high up in the a$$hole dept. So, I will find another shop.

 

BTW - any answers as to WHAT IS CAUSING THIS? I will take it to a shop that specializes in alignments (at the first of the year).

I just would like to know a ball-park figure on parts and labor.

 

Thanks again......help:)

[Ross]

Toe in adjustment cant make you car pull to one side at all.

 

What the guy meant is that there are no camber/castor adjustments provided. This is what needs to be adjusted if alignment is indeed your problem.

 

Camber/Castor can only be "adjusted" by a little bending of the car frame - thats what he would have done if he adjusted the camber. Experienced guys can get the alignment very good by doing this - its even possible to get rid of some of that factory camber these cars have.

 

You need to lift the front wheels off the ground and support it safely. Wiggle the wheels to check for any play. Give the tires a good checking over. Then get a crow bar or similar, and try to pry the bushings/joints around and check for movement.

[chazmataz]

in response to this: That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. Of course you can align a FWD car. Take a peek at your tie rod ends. You will notice that they have threads and a bolt along the shaft. That's where you adjust the alignment. If the guy at the shop won't do it with his fancy laser equipment then you can do a decent job yourself. I think there is a procedure for doing it manually in the "How to Keep your Subaru Alive."

 

the guy was basicly telling you that it can't be aligned completely ( I. E. caster and camber adjustments can't be done, some cars can be and some cars can't ) but it can be aligned but its only a toe set which is done with your inner and outer tie-rods.

 

now then the only thing alignment wise that will cause a pull is castor and camber, it sound like you might have to much caster on your left side which will cause it to pull that way. your engine cradle may also be shifted which wiil give you an offset in how your left wheel is inline with your right wheel this will also cause a pull by changing your caster degree on that side compared to the other side.

 

a brake caliper that is sticking can also cause a pull that isn't even related to an alignment. of course though most cases it won't pull that way if you apply the brakes it might pull the other way.

 

now then, with all that said you could also be experiencing a tire pull which also has nothing to do with an alignment and the way to tell is switch your left tire with your right tire but i do believe you said that you have new tires so that won't be the problem.

 

now if you can PM me or post the specs off your print out and maybe i can tell you if there is a problem with the alignment as in your caster and camber angles or if you have an offset.

[Indrid cold]

My .o2cents.

 

As repeated above, the guy did what he could... do too the design of the car he can't adjust out what is causing the pull. I am going through the exact same thing.

 

Same problem on my 84 Brat. Sorry this won't help you but my solution, put Brat on blocks and been buying replacement parts off E-bay and at Dealer for the last 6 months. I am going to replace as much as I can afford, strut bushings, strut assemblys, leading rod bushing, tie-rods, ball joints etc, I wore tire's out, tweeked and got fed up... parked it and collecting new parts and reading the posts on how to do. If I knew a good Subee guy in the area I wouldn't have to go through all of that but too many things can be causing this so doing it all. I did take it in and the alignment guy said Bring it back fixed as I can't align it or I will fix it for $$$$$$$$$ -you know what happens once it goes on the rack... (up yours goober...)

 

Sorry, no guess on what too replace or cost... This has cost me about $250 for all new parts as just about have them all... and havn't started tearing into it... so figure another $100. plus another alignment...

 

One suggestion that was made was making adjustable Caster & Camber Plates on the top of the Strut Bushing, my brother-In law who is into Honda's does this all the time and said it is not a problem, once installed your can tweek the alignment back into specs. If replacing doesn't solve it I will do that add- on next.

 

Slowly I am learning, step by step... Right now with the subee's all I am is a Jed, but some day I will get my "I" and become strong with the Force.. LOL.

 

I hate cars that don't track straight! So I went and bought a wagon till I got the Brat running.. Sorry so wordy...

[pyromanic]

These are the things I can thing of that you must make sure are in good shape before an alighnment can be of any use:

 

Leading rod bushings

Tie rod ends

Wheel bearings

Ball joints

 

I get the impression that a lot of folks miss the leading rod bushings. Replacing them can get rid of a bunch of different odd handling problems. Cheap and easy too. And chances are that if YOU havn't replaced them, nobody else has.

 

But my main point is that unless ALL of these components are in good condition, an allighnment is useless.

 

Also brakes.

 

When I started restoring my 85 wagon, one of the first things I did was replace ALL those above mentioned components. Then 4 new axles. Exensive, but this one's a keeper, and now I don't have to worry about any of that stuff for years.

 

Good luck

Pyro

[chazmataz]

usually the front end will have a shake down done on it by the person that is going to align it first before he even hooks it up to the machine, just because of that reason. you can't do a proper alignment with any front end suspension or steering parts that have excessive play or are just worn out.

 

any reputable alignment shop (and that includes tire stores that do alignments) won't even waste there time hooking the machine up without doing an inspection first.

[LuckyPistol]

Pyro -

 

thanks, that sounds like a great idea with those parts you listed.

 

I am going to concentrate on leading rod bushings, I remember reading about those bastards somewhere before, and seem to be an important part for sure.

 

Chaz- your right, I am going to make sure to bring my car to a REAL alignment shop for this.

 

thanks again - and when I get this done around Jan,06 - I will let eryone know if this helped.

[WoodsWagon]

Even though your tires are new, I would rotate them. It's easy to do in your driveway, and while you have the car jacked up, you can give a feel to all the componants and see if the brakes are draging on any wheel. A collapsing leading rod bushing will cause a pull, and the rubber tends to be cracked up by this age. A bent leading rod or twisted controll arm could also be part of the problem. But put the front wheels on the back and cross the back wheels over to the front and see if it still pulls, just to be sure it isn't the tires.